- This topic has 33 replies, 16 voices, and was last updated 9 years, 3 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Everybody knows it, yet little is done to change it:
‘Slow pace, low scores damage college hoops’ watchability, visibility‘
But for now, coaches know how the game is officiated and what their players can get away with.
“I think in some ways, coaches are very crafty in terms of taking advantage of how much contact is allowed,” Pomeroy said. “If officials are going to allow more contact over time, that’s an advantage for the defense. All those things kind of come together to create this situation.”
Personally speaking, unless it’s N.C. State playing – a team that I’m passionate about – I don’t really watch a full game anymore. I used to watch multiple full games every weekend and usually one per night during weeknights throughout the regular season.
I respect Coach K – he’s an amazing coach that has accomplished unique things in college basketball … but his fingerprints are all over the way the game is played today. Moreover, I salute Tony Bennett and how Virginia gets things done – but that doesn’t mean they’re watchable in any sense of the word. Defense is a skill involving excellent positioning and great foot-work; WWE wrestling in the post and off screens is not a ‘skill’. I’ll also be damned if delivering a hand-check or forearm shiver to stop a drive is “defensive skill”. I won’t touch ‘flopping’ because I could rant about that forever.
The game and the way it is officiated now gears almost every advantage to the slow and unskilled. It’s a damn shame.
Another viewpoint, more so with regards to timeouts, media, and pace of play:
Amusingly, the author takes a look at the end-game of the Ohio St.-Indiana game the other week:
From roughly 1:52 to 2:23 EST, 31 minutes passed in real time. Including the one media timeout, seven timeouts took up 11:09; three official reviews totaled 5:10, and 16 free throws totaling 8:52, (for an average of 33 seconds per free throw). Here’s the rough breakdown:
– Timeouts: 11 minutes
– Official reviews: 5 minutes
– Free throws: 9 minutes
– Other time: 2 minutes
– Actual basketball: 3 minutes, 37 seconds.
– TOTAL: 31 minutesI’m already remarkably anxious at how I will fill all this empty time without football. Non-wolven hoops and regular season hockey ain’t gonna cut. I have started reading a 1400+ page Russian book (Quiet Flows the Don) as part of my Politburo Officers Program, and I’ve thought about trying heroin or crack (speedball enthusiasts – hey! why not BOTH!).
And I suppose run and dunk solves the issues.
Why do you think the physicality bar has been raised?
All run and no D has lead us to here and now.
Basketball went south at Y2K, and now some prick is telling me it’s mainly because of hard nosed defense?
Physical defense is GREAT. I absolutely LOVE seeing players go for blocked shots and steals. That’s the essence of skilled basketball. Go watch a game from the 1970s or 1980s and see some beautiful f-ing defense that way.
What I don’t like? Clutch, grab, flop. That’s not defense. Makes every play a grind, and impossible to watch.
The biggest thing for me is upholding two rules properly. First, the principle of verticality. Allow big men to go up for blocks, and don’t anticipate contact, or assume that contact constitutes a FOUL. Second, allow guards to penetrate again. If there’s reasonable doubt, it’s a block or a “play on” – not a charge. Again, the flop is not defense. A good perimeter defender will be well in front of the play, and it will be clear that the lane has been shut off way ahead of time. Duke has uglied up basketball by leaving the lane open, only to dive in late and flop to the ground like they’ve been shot. It’s not defense at all. It’s total bullshit basketball.
My solution: (I’m sure I’ve posted this before) Play to a score a la playground ball. Take whatever the average team score for NCAA ball is (or go higher or lower, whatever), first team past the post wins. Playground ball is usually win by 2 (scoring by ones, 2 points for behind the arc), but maybe that gets changed to win by 3. Keep the shot clock. Since there is no game clock, reduce the timeouts.
Regarding fouls, especially at the end of the game, seems like there should be something done to make them more of a disadvantage for the fouling team, therefore a last resort. I think it’s ironic since V championed the “make them make FTs” strategy.
And here’s a thought… use power plays. Maybe after 10 fouls, it goes to 4 on 5 for a period of time or scoring. Crazy? It sure adds an element to hockey. Granted, goals are harder to come by in hockey so I’m not sure how it would transfer to bball.
Just spitballin’
Wanta “fix” college basketball…
1. Get rid of the shot clock for all practical purposes by setting it to 60 seconds. Personally, I would get rid of it entirely but I’ll settle here for 60 seconds so as not to have to listen to the Idiots who think 12-10 games against your rival are boring or waste time arguing with the same …
2. Call the 5 second closely guarded rule accurately and consistently…
3. Make the lane 2 foot wider and call 3 seconds rule accurately and consistently…
4. Forget all about charging and blocking… play on 100% of the time… no matter what…
5. Give everybody six fouls… no one and one at seven … no double bonus at ten fouls per half
6. All non shooting fouls are ball out of bounds… Shooting fouls are two shots inside the arc, 3 outside or one shot on the made basket…
7. When there’s physical contact between an offensive and defensive player on a play that results in a turnover (bad pass or steal, dribble off the foot, whatever) on a non shooting play… ball out to the offensive team… when no foul has been called…
8. On blocked shots… if the defender touches the ball before he makes contact with the shooter… no foul ever …
9. Flagrant fouls (Intentional with malice or targeting a protected area of the body – heads, nuts, etc. ) count as two personal fouls and the other new foul rules apply to specific play (shooting or non-shooting) as out lined above. Two Flagrant fouls in the same game … adios amigo… the rest of this game and the next one..
10. Bench Technical Fouls… Only will be called in the event of physical contact with the referee by a Coach or Player or by creating hazardous conditions on the court (call this the Bob Knight Chair Rule, or the Xavier Rule). Otherwise… let the Show go on… and let the Coaches and the Zebras talk all the trash they want to … to each other… just let ’em know they will be wearing microphones.
Now call me crazy but…
If a zebra can count he’ll do good because we just took almost all of the judgement calls out of the game… if he can’t … he just have to find another part time job… and that solves a lot of problems… either way it goes…
Teams who want to play defense can play all the defense they want to… but they won’t want to as much…
Teams that want to run and gun can run and gun all they want to…
Teams that want to run that Princeteon BS… can run it all they want to but they won’t want to as much..
The Zone Defense returns to college ball …I thought about taking the 3 point shot out too… but I like the three point shot as it fits in perfectly with what I’m trying to accomplish here…
and that’s two things… Good clean games and Parity all around…
On any given night most any team can beat any other team…
because Coaches will start focusing again on exploiting the other team’s weaknesses… and maximizing their Teams strengths…If you’re playing a slow team… you run them…
If you’re playing a fast team… you slow them down…
If you’re playing a big team… you pack the paint…
If you’re playing an outside shooting team… you extend your defense…
etc, etc, etcPlayers who want minutes will become multi-dimensional and forced to work on their weak areas or sit…
Let’s put some imagination and creativity and flexibility back into the game so that seven out of ten games you watch are decided in the last four minutes.. More Nail biters not more blow outs… Closer scores not more points scored… More underdogs beating blue chips… means bigger audiences and more money …
#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!Restrict basketball to white boys only and only the ones who can’t jump!
"Whomp 'em, Up, Side the Head"!
And I suppose run and dunk solves the issues.
^Where was this implied? Did you read the linked article?
Why do you think the physicality bar has been raised?
Talent gaps. For a long time a program like Duke got to have their cake and eat it too. High pressure, physical D on one end to force turnovers and stymie offensive sets, with an offense that took advantage of very liberal “screen-setting”. Teams started to respond the only way they were allowed to respond: by employing the same tactics and slowing down the game. Coach K took advantage of the rules and the refs – good for him. But now the way the game is officiated has to be changed, otherwise you see the drek displayed on tv every single night.
Why do you think it was raised?
All run and no D has lead us to here and now.
Disagree entirely. Like BJD noted, the ’80’s offered the greatest college basketball decade ever. It was hardly all run and no D – it was game won by skill and execution. Not clutching, grabbing, flopping free throw contests.
Basketball went south at Y2K, and now some prick is telling me it’s mainly because of hard nosed defense?
Ad hominem aside, I agree on the relative timing – mid-’90’s to 2000. And no, it’s not due to hard-nosed defense – that should have been clear from the article and the accompanying OP. The way the game is called changed, which took your “hard-nosed defense” and turned into who out-wrestled who. If I wanted to watch f—–g wrestling I’d watch f——g wrestling. Play some damn basketball already instead of teams being in the double bonus with 10:00 to play in the 2nd half.
If you disagree, then what is the impetus of your assertion that it went south on ‘Y2K’?
I didn’t know where else to put this, but I had to share it:
One of my favorite game prep notes of all time, courtesy @FSU_MBasketball SID Chuck Walsh pic.twitter.com/XiJUMKOscq
— Tony Castricone (@Castricone) January 20, 2015
Why do you think the physicality bar has been raised?
Everyone involved with the officiating of college basketball should be forced to watch the 1974 ACC Tournament Final. The pace of play and the freedom of movement allowed with and without the ball are how the game is supposed to be played. Defense, when correctly played, is played with your feet. You have to beat the offensive player to the spot. You shouldn’t be allowed to do all of the clutching and grabbing, especially off the ball. The way cutters are abused has lead to a lot more isolation and less good team play. I could go on forever. Hard nosed defense doesn’t involve hand to hand combat. College basketball has to decide that it has a problem. Until the cha-Ching slows down, it won’t happen.
Hard nosed defense doesn’t involve hand to hand combat. College basketball has to decide that it has a problem. Until the cha-Ching slows down, it won’t happen.
Let’s bring up a point of reference –
Most here remember the home loss debacle last season to Central in which the Eagles shot 45 free throws and hit 90% of them … This was essentially the ballgame. No one liked it, it was – to say the least – almost entirely un-watchable. Prior to the start of last season, the Rules committee and Officiating committee had put emphasis on game flow and freedom of movement. I applauded it and was staunchly in favor of it.
Then games like State-NCCU occurred and everyone (at large, not State fans) took a completely reactionary approach and threw an instant hissy-fit. Within a month, games reverted back to what everyone had become accustomed to but still reviled – bogged down contests with no flow that were ultimately decided by free throws. Being independent contractors, refs reverted back to “what they knew” while getting beat into submission by coaches (and fans + media, really).
While I agree that the State-NCCU game was a complete joke, I wish the refs would have continued on this course. Why didn’t they? No organization, no structure. I’ll belabor this point til I’m blue in the face: college officiating needs to be completely organized and held to certain standards.
If you have an organization that lays everything out and has a mission statement, there would be an adjustment period for everyone – but people would adjust. Damn the instant reaction of social media and 24/7 sports news cycles. I guess this organization would be part of the NCAA, and that’s a joke in and of itself – but it’s a hell of a lot better than a ‘committee’ suggesting guidelines to independent contractors.
As it stands now, it’s a complete guessing game as to how one game or one play is going to be called to the next … So, teams and players do what they’ve been programmed to do – adjust on the fly, hope for the best, and when all else fails make the guy/gal in the striped shirt call a foul rather than letting your opponent beat you. That’s not exactly basketball.
Actually, I don’t even watch a lot of State games. I listen to them on a radio app. Occasionally I’ll go to a sports bar and a friend’s house, but I can’t justify spending $100 a month to watch a few games here and there. The game really has gotten ugly.
There’s no need to change any of the rules. Just start calling the hacking, grabbing, bumping and virtual love-making in the lane. It will be NCCU ugly for a while, but the kids will adjust. I didn’t even watch rasslin’ as a kid – a rarity in the Sandlapper state.
Communism is not love. Communism is a hammer which we use to crush the enemy. Mao Zedong
In case anyone is interested, Gottfried was on today’s Espn College Basketball podcast w/ Andy Katz & our old friend Seth Greenburg
http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=12198721
He comes on around the 15 minute mark, and eventually Katz asks Gottfried about some of the topics we discuss in this thread (around the 25 minute mark)
Iowa player doing his best to ensure that Maryland doesn’t come into the B1G and immediately earn that coveted “most hated all-around d-bags” title:
“Adam Woodbury poked Kaminsky and Nigel Hayes’ eyes tonight, and neither looked accidental. It was actually pretty annoying to watch, and hopefully McCaffery punishes Woodbury. Bush league play there …”
We should go back to the old women’s rules. 5 on offense, 5 on defense, and they can’t cross half court.
Or we could pick up some of the ultimate rules. No dribbling or taking steps with the ball.
WP76, I am in total agreement with your assessment of how awful the game has gotten. It is not longer about playing defense with your feet but clutching and grabbing. Pair this with the poor free throw shooting and you have a recipe for these 50 to 40 games.
No dribbling or taking steps with the ball.
Ha. I was once in charge of a bunch of kids playing street hockey, and two boys on opposite teams were dominating the “game” going end to end, no passing, while the other kids attempted to play “magnet puck”. I took some sidewalk chalk and drew circles that each player and their matchup had to stay inside of, kind of like tabletop hockey. So, spacing was enforced and passing became a necessity. Same idea as ultimate. Within about 15 minutes the lights went off in their little noggins, the circle edict was cancelled and a much more enjoyable game ensued.
“It is no longer about playing defense with your feet but clutching and grabbing.” – I agree, and this is the result of officials not enforcing palming and the evolution of the crossover and blow by. Can’t complain about one without complaining about the other.
“Pair this with the poor free throw shooting…” – college teams have averaged around 70% from the FT line since 1960. That is an acceptable % to me.
Players are longer, faster and more athletic than they were 20-30 years ago when I was most interested in college basketball. The only way for the game to resemble anything close to that is to change the dimensions of the court so that the spacing returns to something comparable to how Naismith intended. Obviously that will never happen.We should go back to the old women’s rules. 5 on offense, 5 on defense, and they can’t cross half court.
Or we could pick up some of the ultimate rules. No dribbling or taking steps with the ball.
That was not the rule “even in Iowa where they still play it”..It was 6 players, 2 rovers who could cross mid court. Believe it or not, that was the way it was played until I was “long out of high school in North Carolina”…
"Whomp 'em, Up, Side the Head"!
That was not the rule “even in Iowa where they still play it”..It was 6 players, 2 rovers who could cross mid court. Believe it or not, that was the way it was played until I was “long out of high school in North Carolina”…
Are you sure it was never played that way anywhere? Because that’s what I was told by someone who played. In NC.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
