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Ok… SFN Coaches… let’s get busy …
On paper they don’t look so tough… and we can go eye to eye with them for forty minutes…
So how you gonna guard these guys tomorrow night?
Who are your starters?Man to Man:
What your best matchups?
Where do you need help?When you switch to Zone:
What flavor: 2/3 – 1-3-1 – Box in one ??What kinds of tricks You up GOTT on the defensive end of the court?
Who’s your secret weapon?———————
Cheaters’ Starters vs. DaVille:
Kennedy Meeks- F – 6’9″ – Soph
Brice Johnson – F – 6’9″ – Junior
J.P. Tokoto – F – 6’5″ – Junior
Justin Jackson – F – 6’8″ – Freshman
Marcus Paige G – 6’1″ – Junior
Cheater Bench:
Nate Britt- G – 5’11” – Soph
Theo Pinson – G/F – 6’6″ – Freshman
Isaiah Hicks – F – 6’8″ – SophPACK Starters vs Dook:
Kyle Washington, F
Abdul-Malik Abu, F
Ralston Turner, G
Trevor Lacey, G
Anthony Barber, G
Our Bench:
Lennard Freeman, F
Beejay Anya, F
Caleb Martin, F
Cody Martin, F
Desmond Lee, G
———————Holler Back “O Wise Ones” …
#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!I’m no coach but I have some stinky, stinky opinions and ideas…
I like the lineup from the Duke game.
I would have Cat and Lee follow Paige Full court, try to deny and make someone else bring it up court and start the offense. Make him work for the ball on that bad foot.
I have always believed in the 2-3 zone. Perhaps sometimes set up in that after the One man press thing mentioned above.
As always against these bastards, a HUGE part of defending them will come down to rebounding. I wish we could use some zone, but I’m afraid of what will come out of it when they go to their offensive boards. If we zone I would consider 2-3 with Cat/Lacey on the wings looking at our starters. It may be best to utilize zone with Martin14 and/or Martin15 in the game.
So you GOTTa think man-to-man 75%+ of the game. What I WISH we would do is take advantage of our depth and trap the hell out of them on the perimeter (i.e. “a little of their own medicine”). But I’m not counting on it… Probably straight up MTM roughly by position. Can you consider anything other than Cat/Lacey on Paige/Tokoto…? That would appear to be our strongest defense.
Yeah MP, I bet you are right = Mostly straight man, zone here and there
Who knows? Maybe this is the game where we start to trap opponents and/or Full court press. I know in my heart he has some wrinkle saved for this game, I just know it!
I’d go Box and One on Paige. Cat and Dez split the task along with help from Cody. Just frustrate the pee hockey dern out of him.
***fyi I’m a basketball illiterate
For a team used to pressuring the ball up the court quickly to try to score in transition will they be as flustered by the full court pressure? At times I wondered why didn’t full court press to break the 8-0 run, hell they were doing it to us but we wanted to limit quick scores and I bet the calculation is Duke was having a hard time scoring in the half court (prior to the run) so why make the transition buckets easier knowing they want to score fast. We would have put them at the line (stops clock) or worse they get two quick points.
UNC will also have about the same preparation in transition. Lets hope our half court defense holds up, I think zone will slow down their bigs if they get going. Paige has put up big games but he’s not consistently a great shooter is he? I hope we throw in some double teams/traps as soon as they cross mid court a few times to throw them off. Given the size of their lineup do we really need to chase them around the perimeter with a man defense?
before crucifixion remember I’m self proclaim a bball IQ of half my age… I’m under 35. Lets use this as a teaching moment
^kappa… nothing to apologize for… especially your honesty…
There’s two things here… as I understand your query…
1. Fast Break off a rebound… which the Press does not effect..
2. Fast Break off the Inbounds pass…This is an trademark of Uncle Roy and the Holes and while some may be as good at it as the Holes, nobody is better at it.
Meeks will take the ball out…. unless we can get him in foul trouble…
Anya or whoever is “assigned” to Meeks or the closest guy to the baseline, anybody with legs and a Red jersey, has GOTT to slow Meeks down coming and going…That’s your first key…
The Inbound pass is going up the sideline on the right side because Meeks is right handed to somewhere near the hashmark…
The closest guy in Red who can get to that spot has to channel Richard Sherman or David Amerson or somebody… one eye on the ball, one eye on the receiver at full speed…
That’s your second key…
That receiver is going to make a pass to another Hole who started across the floor and opposite… so Pack guy #3 has GOTT to be in that Hole’s shirt when the Hole crosses halfcourt…
That’s your third key…
Get those right and we’ll slow ’em down…
——————-
The problem is that with any movement in our set offense… nobody is in the right three places most of the time…
If Anthony drives… he can’t get in Hole#3’s shirt…
If Lacey drives or shoots from the corner… he can’t be Richard Sherman…
Neither Anthony nor Lacey can do both…If Anya is at the High Post instead of on the Blocks… he can’t get to Meeks quick enough…
The bigger problem is that if there’s no movement in the offense… there’s no made baskets …
Which is why Uncle Roy is the best at making this work…
#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!Since UNC doesn’t have many shooters, I’d double-team Meeks. Who’s he gonna kick it out to? Meeks can draw fouls if we play him straight up. We were pretty successful doubling Okafor, with our weak side defense moving well and not allowing as many skip passes, unlike the UVA game.
I wouldn’t put a world of pressure on Paige, at least not in the first half. He does most of his damage in the 2nd half anyway. Just don’t put him on the FT line!
I just read a scouting report on them. It sounds like Paige is the only guard on the floor most of the time, with Britt playing some. They don’t like to shoot 3s, and aren’t great at it when they do it. The only way they can consistently score is on rebounds/put backs.
I bet we start with straight man, sometimes doubling down on their bigs with the wings, then shifting to a 2-3 zone as necessary.
I just assumed everyone on here already knew I full of baloney, that’s why I never admit it as brave Kappa did…
UGH I can’t wait!
Are we talking stopping the break after a make with a press? Or stopping the break period…make or miss?
Here’s the man who knows more than I… Mr. Dog…
… I don’t hear the word ‘press’ used very often when talking about “stopping the break off the rebound”…
… my comments only addressed stopping the break after the made basket… not that there’s a whole lot of difference… instead of following Meeks out of bounds to slow the pass down… we just GOTT to get in their rebounder’s face to slow his first pass down… Red guys #2 and #3 basically do the same things, except the play could go up either side so they GOTT to read and do the right thing…
fwiw… I’m thinking we ought to be shooting up there in the 55% range again and our BIGs will be getting what few offensive rebounds there are….
#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!^ Mr. Bill, please. I said:
Stop with a press after make…then…stop the break…make or miss.🙂
Either way, Unx will go as fast as they can. For my money, anyway, the single most important first line of defense is making the outlet receiver as uncomfortable as physically possible. Press or no press, make or miss.
Hell, forearms in the chest are acceptable methods as long as he is kept to the sideline, and aware of the presence. 🙂
^Like I said… channel Richard Sherman or Kam Chancellor…
But do “acceptable (defensive) methods” include “putting a ’round peg’ IN A HOLE…
or being so damn close to that HOLE as to do be able to do so if one so desired…
as the title indicates ??Would that be “physically uncomfortable” or would it make ’em smile?
Either way…. the guy in Baby Blue probably ain’t catching the ball…
#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!When Paige wakes up tomorrow morning, either Cat, Dez or one of the Martins should be there to knock the toothbrush out of his hands.
Of more concern however, is the fact that in all likelihood, Turner will be tasked with containing either Tokoto or Jackson.
Are we talking stopping the break after a make with a press? Or stopping the break period…make or miss?
An important distinction.
Token pressure (i.e., a backcourt trap and hedge) to delay a halfcourt set is fine.
Typically there are two simple keys to beating the Cheats under Roy: rebound the ball and make them play in the halfcourt (the Butler blueprint from earlier this season). That said you have to play to your own strengths first and foremost. State will push when there are good opportunities to do so.
The Holes will always look to attack down-court, especially after made baskets. No program is consistently better at doing this. Attacking quickly after opponent baskets is a staple of Roy teams. That’s when match-ups and personnel matter. Everybody has to know assignments after each play. The Holes under Roy love to pressure you by forcing tempo.
Rick Pitino has never defeated the Cheats. This past Saturday he did the unthinkable and abandoned his trademark press and pressure in order to force a halfcourt game. It worked for 75% of the game.
As for match-ups, I think Tokoto is the wildcard. Interested to see who is matched on him on both ends of the corurt. I like the idea of mixing in some zone traps or even a little box-and-1. I’d like for Cat/Lee/Martins to be fronting Paige no matter what (man D or otherwise). We have some advantages in the halfcourt. Good ball movement and making them work on D could really free up Lacey and Turner to do their thing.
Should be an interesting match-up. Of course, if they’re allowed to assault us like they did when Warren “turned it over” in OT last season then who knows.
Man I was so pissed when Warren “turned it over” I almost punched my television screen. Then I realized the holes would win again by making the Wolfpack pay. Few will ever realize how perfect a game we have to play to beat a blue blood. We have to block 10 shots, make 10 threes, and they have to have an off night at the same time for it to happen thanks to to our “self inflicted turnovers”, charges, folding under pressure.
I’m definitely worried about the transition buckets but we had to prepare for that against Duke as well. They might not be as good at getting up the court as ol Roy’s teams but they are close. UNC is going to try to own the paint and the boards. We have to continue to shoot well, defend the paint, and just make UNC work. If we can slow their transition offense in the ways you all described and disrupt their drives then I like our chances. I know its easier said than done and I really appreciate all the breakdowns. I know football fairly well, I watch basketball and have been learning the game the last 15 or so years.
Still don’t know what a Box and 1 is, thanks to Syracuse I know what a 2-3 and a 1-3-1 zone is. I don’t know if I’ll ever know what a high post offense is. I know our movement without the ball is often suspect, our screens are often suspect, and our spacing (Duke game aside) usually has us in poor position to get offensive rebounds.
I’ll watch and learn with the rest of the Atlanta contingent in a little town called Smyrna. Go Pack!!! Excited for the game tomorrow.
..Kappa…
Box in one … is just that… four guys play a 2 x 2 zone and one guy plays man on one opponent where ever he goes…
… and if your the One … when the Coach says ‘stick on your man – everywhere he goes’ … he means everywhere…I’ve even seen the one guy in the Box in One go sit beside his opponent on his opponents bench during a timeout …
The prettiest Box in One you’ll ever see … is on Ice … when a Hockey team goes down a man short due to a penalty… four guys in front off the goalie and the goalie… in those cases… the four guys form a diamond, instead of a rectangle…
Post River on Powers Ferry Road… in Symrna…
back in the day… was a honey hole…#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!kappa – pretty good website that breaks down a lot of basketball sets, styles, and jargon here – basketball for coaches
You don’t have to be a coach to enjoy clicking through the articles. Also, there some great videos on youtube dissecting the high post / UCLA offense (John Wooden offense) if you’re interested.
If you get a chance to re-watch ‘Survive and Advance’ (on Netflix now) there’s discussion surrounding the ACC title game against Virginia where V scrapped the game plan and went to a straight box-and-1 defense on Ralph Sampson that flummoxed UVa and allowed State to steal the win. Really, it was more like a triangle-and-two – as V used one of his patented ‘junk defenses’ to stymie Sampson. He put McQueen playing behind Sampson and a guard fronting Sampson a all times, while the other three defenders played a triangle zone. Really cool and interesting stuff.
On paper …
Youth is not a factor… the Holes are starting 3 Juniors, 2 Soph, 1 Freshman
We’re starting 1Senior, 2 Juniors, 2 Soph, 1 Freshman – If ABU starts… 3 soph, 0 freshman – if Anya starts…Depth: It looks like we have a two man advantage…
On the perimeter… we have Anthony, Lacey, Dez the defender + Turner the scorer = 1, plus M14 and M15 working against Paige, Tokoto and Britt…
Along the Frontline, I’ve GOTT …
Anya /ABU on Meeks..
KW on Johnson / Hicks
Freeman on JacksonThen we have M14 and M15 who can get in the paint…
Then We go right at them… offensively and defensively…
Uncle Roys first move off the bench should be to substitute Hicks which doesn’t hurt him..We GOTTA hit the boards, block out and finish our close shots stronger than ever,
if we set two of their BIGS down… or shut them all down mentally as we did Dook… we’ll be in good shape..On the perimeter, Lacey can handle Tokoto one on one…
The real question is can Tokoto handle Lacey…As mentioned, Paige will see a lot of pressure and individual attention…
He doesn’t foul much… but if Tokoto gets in foul trouble… Uncle Roy is in big trouble. He got’s to go small off the bench in the backcourt and that’s where we can trump him…This game is one that has to broken down and won four minutes at a time…
and of course, if it’s close at the end, Free Throw Showing and handling the ball cleanly during crunch time will determine the outcome…The most important thing for the PACK is to play forty minutes of focused ball… No 3-5 minute dead spells… we had one against Dook… that’s why you GOTT to Coach to the Timeouts..
I’ve GOTT one play that gets me a basket inside and one play that gets me a basket outside … I saving those for when I need coming out of the Timeouts to stop those dead spells…
————-
I’m looking for four of our kids to be in double figures scoring, two double digit rebounding, and another 10-12 assists from someone not named Lacey or Barbour…
If we hit the HOLES as squarely, as hard and as often as we hit the Dookies…. the HOLES will choke on it BIGTIME…
I ain’t scared of Marcus Paige… I’m wearing him out by making him play Defense first.
I want to SEE the local kid from Hoggard… Stilman White on the court tonight…If the Showgirls are there… Uncle Roy needs to worry cause I’m putting Meeks in a foul mood… and I’m trading him to the bench… If they let us play… we will find out who the better team is…
Uncle Roy hates calling Timeouts worse than he hates State and he hates State worse than Dook… which is saying something for a Carolina man… His players really don’t understand why the Old Man Hates State so much so they just look at him funny when he goes off …
I’m making Uncle Roy call TWO timeout’s tonight…
and when his kids come back out on the floor … they’ll have something new to consider each time…My favorite zone is the 1-3-1 in your face..
Bottom Line is it should be another good one…
Nobody really knows, anything could happen…
’cause it’s UNC v. NC State for first place on Tobacco Road…#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!^ BOTB, I too like the 1-3-1. I considered it when writing my post, but couldn’t get Da Asterisk’s offensive rebounding out of my head. Hence, the 2-3.
Does anyone know the relationship between various zone defenses and rebounding position / Boxing Out?
…^MP … they told me when I played in the paint to box out the man closest to me…
Don’t think that’s changed much…Yep… The 1-3-1 does a couple of things that other zones don’t….
It’s not used much so most Teams as good at breaking it as say a 2/3 …
1. Puts the three point shooters in the toughest places… i.e. deep in the corner…
2. Makes it easy to trap the ball deep in the corners…
3. Should always have three and sometimes four rebounders…
or to let the weakside guy fly… and fast break out of it…But it’s hell on the guy running the baseline…
( and most of the timeback in the day that was me… )#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!Maryland used to run a 1-3-1 with a tall wing player at the top of the zone…they played a 3/4 court 1-3-1 trap press, and it was very effective. I still don’t understand why more coaches don’t employ that press. I stole it when I coached a junior girls rec league team, only we pressed full court rather than 3/4 court. It was devastatingly effective. If you have a tall, deep team (ahem, Wolfpack) and you run this defense effectively, you can destroy teams.
When the Ol’ Man created the Match-Up Zone, it came out of the 1-2-2. He felt the 1-2-2 was the superior trapping and rebounding base D. He employed it for Full Court Presses, too.
Pitino’s is as close to the original I’ve seen in many moons. Boeheim’s comes out of the 2-3, but the elements are virtually the same.
Man….That was a brutal zone. I really don’t know why it’s not used more often.
Mr. Dog…
I never played a 1-2-2 and don’t know anything about it…
The obvious question, if you don’t mind…
How do you defend what could potentially be “the big hole in the middle”
or
do you just have guys who are tall enough AND quick enough to get there and cover the sidelines too?#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!
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