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I think the Troll crushed it with there is no loyalty/love between DD and the fan base/administration. It is incredibly unprofessional to walk up to a coach and say you either win this game or you are fired. That means all the positives associated with DD, endlessly listed by the fans and Yow up to the 2016 unx game, at the end of 4 years meant absolutely nothing to management. How would you take it if that happened at your job? Make this sale or whatever equivalent or you are out. That’s not something I would forget, ever.
It was brought up on PP 3 years ago. Set up DD with 2 great coordinators and let him preach god, academics, family etc. which is what they inevitably did with Dabo. State is way too cheap to take this route. This scenario can work at Tennessee. They just offered 6.0mm per year to Gundy alone. It has been reported Tee Martin is interested. 3.0mm for Tee, 6.0mm for staff.
The first 3 comments on DD on GoVols, now we are searching in the gutter, great another coach google search and 15-25 in the ACC. I don’t think DD gets an offer but anything is possible. DD could actually succeed in a Dabo structure. Tennessee gets their share of recruits. Someone wrote top 20 last 4 years and was #6 before the fire Butch show started.
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Reports of Dave Doeren interviewing with Tennessee today are inaccurate. So is the one about “close to taking” the Ole Miss job.I hope he stays based on the trend and recruiting, but he has had some really bad records and has come down to beating UNC now 2 years in a row to avoid revolt. Continual losses to Wakes and BC’s etc…overall ridiculous losing record in conference. Now if you want to be paid like a 10 win coach, you need to produce like one.
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Reports of Dave Doeren interviewing with Tennessee today are inaccurate. So is the one about “close to taking” the Ole Miss job.Smells like people trying to put things out there to raise DD’s market value, and get a big deal with guaranteed money pushed through….
There are two major factors here that I find disturbing; one on the administration’s side and one on Doeren’s side.
First, on the administration’s side: I was rather surprised to learn while reading one of the articles about Doeren’s flirtations with Tennessee, etc., that his total compensation appears to be below average for the ACC (actually in the bottom quarter of the league.) Trying to be a ‘top half of the league’ football school in a Power 5 conference just can’t be done on the cheap – period! I thought, with the departure of Lee Foulup, State had come to the realization that trying to do such things was just not possible. Frau Yow had struck me as understanding this – now, I’m not so sure. I think we got DD at a reasonable rate (given his very short history as a Head Coach), but I also think that this season gives us some reasonable evidence that he can translate his skills to the ACC level. I’m not saying that we can (or should) compensate him at the top-3-of-the-league-level yet, but I think we should at least bring him above the league average. Anything less, in my opinion, is just sort of a slap in the face. Hey, he may tank in the future, but sometimes you got to “invest” upfront to get the big payoff.
Now, on Doeren’s side: His performance to date ACC-record-wise has not been stellar until this year and we have every reason to think there might be some drop off next year. Indeed, his overall record is just above .500, as I recall BUT we have seen marked improvement considering the hot mess he started with. I guess my issue is that he seems to think he’s proved he’s some sort of miracle worker and I’m not ready to go there yet. A bit of patience on his part might be warranted. Indeed, he might find that the fans at Tennessee (or other “big time” school) might be considerably less patient than we have been.
Finally, I don’t know what’s been offered to this point. Maybe Debbie Y’s offer has been reasonably generous given the big picture and DD is just trying to maximize his compensation by threatening to leave. Or maybe he’s unhappy here and only a ridiculous (and probably unwarranted) offer might buy his loyalty until another SEC team comes calling. I just don’t know. I just HOPE that we don’t lose a good (if not proven great) coach by continuing to do things on the cheap. If State is not interested in paying the price of admission, then they should not expect to be admitted to the “big-time-football” club.
Cow – I seem to recall you setting the UNC-Ch game as a must win last year – very succinctly.
Now, so much of this depends on the relationship. The school can tell him that he was given a chance – where very few P5 schools would be that patient.
It’s very easy for us to say, “Yow was being too rigid/difficult to work for – this is why coaches hate her!” Of course, if he lost that UNC-Ch game – he’s sitting @ 2-6 in the conference, 4-7 overall. His 4 year record is/was even with the win – the worst 4 year conference record for an NC State coach since we have been playing in the ACC (I know it was worst since Earle Edwards.)
Now, so much depends on her / Woodson’s approach during this time and negotiations. If there’s true bad blood – it’s probably too late and he’s gone at the first shot. If not, then money can heal all wounds. If I’m Yow – I’m selling that factoid – “Hey, look, here’s our history. I fired the guy before you and he went 15-17 his last four years, you were 9-23. If you think I didn’t WANT to keep you, you’re crazy.”
As part of my good faith offer – his bonus would allow him to match the 3rd best salary in the league…and quite frankly, I’d make that part of the contract if he can finish in the Top half of the conference. I’d give him money to spend on his assistants as he sees fit.
However, DD has proven he can have a winning season when given time. He has not proven he can sustain it. If he does, he’s likely gone.
I want to keep him in the fold badly, but OTOH, if I’m a UT and I see us bringing in this guy – I wonder. However, given the cluster of the search so far, he’s likely to get a Les Robinsoneque/Sidney Lowe type pass ” Don’t hate this guy! At least he took the job!!!”
Finally, losing DD because of a fight with AD over negotiations does NOTHING to enhance Yow’s bad reputation in the coaching community that has been mentioned numerous times (whether legit or not) – and it will absolutely hurt us in the next hire. This is all coming together very badly!
all the positives associated with DD, endlessly listed by the fans and Yow up to the 2016 unx game, at the end of 4 years meant absolutely nothing to management.
I was sitting in that corner of the endzone at Kenan last year when OUR COACH ran by on the way the visiting locker room after we embarrassed the Cheaters…
Interesting enough, for you trivia guys… I wasn’t but a few rows up from where I was sitting with my Pop in 1972 at that game Mr. Dog referencing in his Pat Kenney / Lou Angelo stories….
There’s film somewhere, but if ya’ll remember… he almost jumped in the stands with the RED && WHITE…
Our Man Dave was…
HEAD UP!
fist pumping…
hand slapping…
hugging his assistants and players…
O HELL YEAH WE BEAT THESE SOBs!!
Last time I felt this good, my wife gave us our son!!!Now, I DON’T Know… but I thought I saw an NCState Man WhoNeedsNoIntroduction for LIFE that afternoon in Kenan….
Not a glimpse of…
Head down…
eyes closed…
F#ck YOU Debbie!!!While I know nothing lasts forever, that’s was just my take on things that day.
Now I am clueless as to what ensued thereafter…
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Set up DD with 2 great coordinators and let him preach god, academics, family etc.
!THIS makes way the hell more sense than it ought to!
And the way I’m looking at it…. win 7-10 games a year for five years in a row and the MONEY is there to do it….
If you got the balls to GO FOR IT!!!
Which as we ALL know, it a whole other question for which there’s no precedent.
— byob -BOTB
#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!Here’s the deal though right now. Evidently, part of the sticking point – at least from what has been released -FWIW – is that he wants more $$ for assistants and guaranteed contracts. This is why I said, “here’s X million to spend on your assistants as YOU see fit” – and you give them the same clause that you give Dave. Which is when you outkick your coverage, (read, finish in top 3rd) – you get paid that year like a Top 3rd coach.
Which is when you outkick your coverage, (read, finish in top 3rd) – you get paid that year like a Top 3rd coach.
The question remains: what happens when you shank one or two?
DD doesn’t exactly light my world on fire, but if we have to replace him, I don’t think we end up ahead of the game in the next few years. The smart play to me is to keep him, but WITHOUT being bent over.
We have no clue what the details are, but Skitchwolf and Chop make some good points.
My thought would be to stagger pay/incentives in both directions and let DD pick the level of risk he wants to take for he and his assistants. However, most people are like salespeople. When they’re killing it, they want to work on commission, but when things are in the tank they want a bigger base salary (and a buyout).
As BOTB stated, who has the balls?
Anyone got any ideas or know why Brent Venables’ name isn’t in the mix? Looks to have great potential.
Which is when you outkick your coverage, (read, finish in top 3rd) – you get paid that year like a Top 3rd coach.
The question remains: what happens when you shank one or two?
You don’t get your bonus.
The salary is one thing – I’d renegotiate his salary to make it middle of the pack – and tell him, I’ll happily renegotiate it again if you finish ahead of the middle of the pack again. And like I said, a big fat bonus (in addition to his salary/what he already has this year) so his total salary and bonus would be slightly above the 3rd highest paid coach in the league.
I think Yow does get pretty creative on incentives – and she may be doing this. If DD is wanting Dabo or Richt money – he has to realize he asking for more than the market is demanding for his services. But this may be like that Gecko / Sir Larry Wildman negotiation in that Yow is going to have to pay some coin for getting personal (in this case, threatening to fire him.)
Chops, recall last year clearly, thru pictographs, stating 8 wins was the Mendoza line. I never knew if that was season, or plus bowl. The UNC game might have saved his bacon, but maybe the Vandy game did.
Either way, also remember, he was a bit chippy after the Unx win.
Btw, I am laughing at the Tennessee ADs earlier comment about not wanting to use a search firm. Wonder if his dumpster fire of a coaching search is making him rethink things.
Anybody want to comment on the Tennessee fan base expectations or Tennessee administration? If DD is trying to get more money out of us, ok. But if gets serious with Tennessee, their admin and fan base make ours look very tame.
Anyone got any ideas or know why Brent Venables’ name isn’t in the mix? Looks to have great potential.
Venables doesn’t want to be a head coach. Likes working with the players without the BS of a HC.
The latest target to emerge in Tennessee’s head-coaching search is NC State’s Dave Doeren, and sources told ESPN the two sides are scheduled to have discussions about the Vols’ job.
Here is the reality. I have been around sports my whole life and I am knocking on the door of 50. I’m going to tell you all something about coaches. A good coach is RARE. Maybe only 1 in 10 to 1 in 15 people make truly good coaches. The people that are the best don’t just know the game. Most every coach knows pretty much how to play the game. The best coaches know how to put together a team and teach it how to win. DD is sorely lacking in this category. If you really have to ask yourself after 5 years if your coach is a winner or not, then he is not a winner. If you think he is at this point, you are accepting mediocrity. You should always strive to find that winning coach. Our team finished the season 8-4. We really didn’t have any unexpected wins this season except for maybe Louisville and we lost 2 games we should have won. Clearly we underachieved. Our coach doesn’t realize the importance of a kicker after 5 years. All this points to an overwhelming case of mediocrity. If we had lost the UNC game it would’ve just been the straw that broke the camel’s back. I hope DD ends up at Tennessee. We need to continue our search for a winner.
Show him the money, forget about your emotions.
unc is down, Tennessee is down, South Carolina isn’t recruiting well in the old north state and neither Virginia team is gaining ground.
Clempson is up. Two of the three schools that historically get lots of N.C. high school talent are hurting. The chance to make serious recruiting in roads is now.
McCallum
If what I’m hearing is accurate, I was wrong about DD’s character. Right now I feel like the wife who just found her husband of 5 years chasing skirts.
If the Ole Miss story is true, you won’t have to read any more crap from me about DD being a man of his word. As far as I’m concerned if you can’t walk the talk, take a walk.
I’m done.
I do think he has started to get recruiting momentum but it’s not like we’d be trying to replace Lou Holtz if he goes Rocky Top.
It’s also remarkable to see such widely divergent hairstyles being targeted in the same search.
No reason at all to be surprised that “Thin Skin” Dave would take any opportunity to use NC State as a stepping stone. Apparently scuttle butt is that he is Tennessee #1 target at this time. He’ll be loathed by the fans there.
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