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Greywolf, thanks for the feedback. Perhaps culture is one of those words that we overuse, but you hit the proverbial head of the nail. DD can be criticized for losing to ranked teams or not enough overall wins, but instilling a culture of hard work, accountability, and responsibility in order to win will likely be his legacy and probably his biggest achievement.
Chuck Amato is such a beloved figure among former Wolfpack players being a prominent member of the famous white shoes team. I felt for CTC and was sorry his head coaching tenure came to an unhappy end. Conventional wisdom had him practically pulling all the coaching levers while the Assistant Head Coach and DC for Bobby Bowden at 1/2AssU. Expectations may have been unfairly high for Chuck and after a few seasons at NC State, it became clear to me that Ole’ Bobby was more involved with FSU than once believed. However, credit Coach Amato with having the cache in raising the donations needed to fund the C-F renovations/expansion and construction of the Murphy football ops center. Without Chuck as the head coach, I believe the scope of the projects would have been scaled back. Thank you Chuck The Chest!
I liked Chuck and his shoes too.
East of Tallahasse
Thanks Ad Yow.
She’s got us currently ranked 5th or 6th in the Directors Cup. We are kicking butt in nearly all the Olympic sports. The revenue sports are looking up. Baseball is in the top 8 in every poll. I can hardly believe it. Our wrestling coach was robbed out of Nat. COY accord to a non-State biased wrestling expert. We brought home another Natty and a bunch of AA’s.
It’s the best this 80 y.o. here has ever seen Wolfpack sports and I’ve been watching and rooting for the Pack for over 70 years.
I have been enjoying the ride too. Watched the ncaa wrestling finals for the first time this year. Go WolfPack. Baseball team is rolling too. My kids quit asking who was winning when I had a sports program on because they knew it would be the Pack and chances are they would be losing. Not this year they would stop and say hey look at the score there winning. Sweet.
DD passed the test last year. What was missed last year is that the d actually took a step back…hard to believe with the talent we had, but it did. I have been conflicted on Dad’s tenure for a while.
I see lots of good things and I really like what he has done in terms of program building, but he has struggled in getting conference wins and until last year – winning the close games.
I don’t think he’s out of the woods yet. As good as last year was, the difference between our best conference record and another 3-5 year may have been Nyheim Hines. He had key runs which tilted the field vs Pitt, BC and UNC-Ch. But, consistency begs here – and you throw the close losses out the door with close wins and figure you break even. But, regardless, if we are going to keep our gains, guys are going to have to make plays like Nyheim did when the game is on the line. Maybe it’s Jakobi Meyers or Harmon, maybe the frosh receiver who showed just how much he cares about winning after a fumble on/over the goal line in Winston (seriously folks, that’s the passion you need.) Maybe Finley continues his growth and emerges somewhere between Brisset and RW and Philip Rivers.
Grey – good call on DL coach. He stepped into a great situation. I suspect we lose our OL coach shortly. He had done a fantastic job and I doubt we can keep the 1% at Bay too long, but apparently we did last year. I should be worried about this unit, but I have a lot of confidence in this coach.
The (NC State) OOC schedule, most of it at home, is made for easy wins against teams that most Pack fans don’t care to see.
Kind of like Alabama’s OOC — LA Lafayette, Citadel, Arkansas State — wouldn’t you say? The so-called easy OOC is essential to the development of each season’s new team. A difficult OOC game is also now recognized as essential development and to the thirst that fans have for good home games. Thank god we got those cupcakes, ND and USC, off our schedule this season and replaced by WVU, right 13?
Your point of view that winning sufficient games, 8 or 9, and be ranked Top 25 as being mediocre is interesting. Top 25 mediocre? Hmmm
Perhaps culture is one of those words that we overuse, but you hit the proverbial head of the nail. DD can be criticized for losing to ranked teams or not enough overall wins, but instilling a culture of hard work, accountability, and responsibility in order to win will likely be his legacy and probably his biggest achievement.
Jax, IMO Culture is not only overused but often misused. A consensus meaning of culture, as we are using it here, indicates a group “way of life.” Our previous coach had admirable goals — winners in the classroom, in the community and on the field — but having goals is not a culture. Doeren not only has goals but has programs for his players that help instill in his players a “way of life” that promotes fulfilling those goals.
There are coaches and programs that have created a culture similar to some degree to what we are speaking but most programs stop at having goals. The public school west of here doesn’t appear to have anything approaching the culture that Cole Cook speaks about but it undoubtedly has goals.
The culture that Doeren has created here wasn’t created in order to win, however, in order to win gives focus to the development of the culture. IMO a culture that results in winning cannot be created inside the mindset of creating a culture in order to win. People easily detect the phoniness of that mindset.
Everywhere I go these days… I’m meeting Wolfpackers… I have yet to talk with anyone who is critical of the way Coach Doeren and staff have gone about building our football program.
Monday morning quarterbacking of games, excluded, of course….
But that’s gonna happen regardless of the outcome, even in Tuscaloosa…GO PACK!
#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!I was listening to David Glenn yesterday and he made the comment that Villanova’s head basketball coach had a losing record in his 12th season (IIRC) and they stuck with him. DD has been on the hot seat to many fans during his time, and this year is the first one he has had in which he could really stick to his culture build without having to look over his shoulder. I believe our culture as a university would be to stick with a coach longer than the proven winners out there. DD is getting in the door with many high level recruits and all we need is another successful season and he will be have the talent to get us to where we can be a yearly major factor in the ACC.
DD passed the test last year. What was missed last year is that the d actually took a step back…hard to believe with the talent we had, but it did. I have been conflicted on Dad’s tenure for a while.
Chop, I’m going to take your post one chunk at a time and treat the whole thing like we are having a conversation over a cold one.
Possibly most of the problems were with the LB’s, the nickel and the DB’s. A little improvement in all areas is possible and I say likely. So what’s going to be different? IMO Ted Roof is going to make a difference coaching the safeties and as coaching Henry as Henry learns to coach the Nickel position. Plus as Co-DC he will be coordinating the CBs and saferies and Nickel’s. This may have been Doeren’s best recruit this spring.
I see lots of good things and I really like what he has done in terms of program building, but he has struggled in getting conference wins and until last year – winning the close games.
Ain’t it so. Doeren seems to be turning more and more of the game coaching to assistants. Drinkwitz is maturing. Hux isn’t near as bad as some seem to think. With Hux in the box and Roof on the field our defensive brain trust is IMO in pretty good shape. Let Doeren do what the really successful coaches do. Let assistants manage the details and DD work the refs and make the decisions assistants are afraid to make like Saban making the QB change in the NC game.
I don’t think he’s out of the woods yet… Maybe Finley continues his growth and emerges somewhere between Brisset and RW and Philip Rivers.
All good stuff beginning to end of this paragraph. I especially like your comment about Emeka Emezie’s passion for the game. I also like that Drink, McDonald or whoever put him in the game. No “seniority” rights here.
Grey – good call on DL coach. He stepped into a great situation. I suspect we lose our OL coach shortly. He had done a fantastic job and I doubt we can keep the 1% at Bay too long, but apparently we did last year. I should be worried about this unit, but I have a lot of confidence in this coach.
Debbie knows that to keep good coaches you have to pay them — not necessarily top dollar but fairly. Our assistants are doing okay at the pay window. What will make a difference is the coaching culture that Doeren has created. He wants his assistants to be home for family time, be able to plan vacations and in general to be happy with their coaching environment.
Ledford and his wife are both from Marion NC, i.e., near both grandparents of their 2 boys, 4 and 1. (Doeren is still here because momma and his boys didn’t want to move away. Of utmost importance keep momma happy. We all know that if momma ain’t happy ain’t nobody going to be happy.) I have no illusions about keeping Ledford as a line coach forever but I’d bet bunches he won’t be leaving for slingsh!t, Louisiana to make a few bucks more any time soon.
Kevin Patrick was very specific about coming here to be in the family atmosphere and coaching culture.
I think it is amazing that we have as little pure turnover (no lateral moves) as we do.
I as much as anybody want to see more wins. I am confident as long as DD continues to do all the right things the right way, the wins will come.
I just had the thought, being a defensive coach he in his past hasn’t had much opportunity to develop clock management skills. For defense it’s call time out to stop the clock. Get the ball back and let the offense do it’s thing. Defense has to react to whatever the offense does. Offense gets to call the shots.
Doeren appears to be letting Drinkwitz have more freedom each game. DD is not an old dog but that dog appears to be learning new tricks.
Grey, you so optimistic. We need our DL to bring it this year along with the LBs and secondary stepping up a bit more. As long as Finley is under center I feel pretty confident about the offense. With that said we have little room for error in regards to our schedule. So we need to win the games we are supposed to win. Always a challenge for Wolfpack sports. My money is on Jakobi being our go to guy on offense this year.
Wake me in September
Been reading a 2 year old thread about football and then say, “Wake me in September?” Who are you trying to impress? 😉
Wake me in September
In the past 28 or so hours there have been 19 posts to this thread, which is more than ALL other threads combined in that same time period. 19 excludes my posts.
Sorry if I woke you, rthomas44. 😉
Grey – I do enjoy your optimistic takes. It’s a good counter-balance to the VA Wolf posts that will be more pessimistic. It’s a wise move to pay attention to both viewpoints.
I was glad to see DD’s building yield some fruit last year. I am looking forward to seeing what he can do on the recruiting trail and what part 2 will look like. I do think that it can’t be understated just how strong we have become in the trenches – and how unusual that is for NC State football. Back to back 1000 yard runners. I think that says a lot (and only an injury kept that from happening 3 years in a row.
To the original title of the thread, we have DD for at least a while longer so none of us are done with DD. When he was making noise about leaving I was fine with that. The sun would have risen the next day. He stayed with a raise and an extension and I guess that is fine too.
I’m fairly optimistic about this year for several reasons:
1) We have Ledford and the OL and Finley under center. They will be able to score some points.
2) I tend to think Roof + Hux will make a good combo, particularly if that means that DD gets away from “coaching” in the games on defense. I like Hux more than most, but don’t like our 4-2-5.
3) Place kicking will be better
4) The Atlantic got easier this offseason, even if for just one year. I am in the minority who thinks that Taggert is actually an upgrade for FSU over Jimbo, but it is going to take him a couple of recruiting cycles. Louisville lost their Heisman candidate. Yeah, we lost our DL (and it was a darn good one) and the man who recruited and developed them (which to me is more concerning), but there is a window to creep up a bit more.Put it together and I see no reason why we cannot go 8-4 again.
As for Yow, she’s the best AD in my lifetime. Nobody is perfect though and her hiring and handling of Gott was “Gott-awful.” She’s doing better with Keatts. Time will tell just how much NC state (and by extension Yow) knew about the basketball scandal.
DD is clearly Yow’s guy and she wanted him back. I’m sure she feels that is best for NC State, but it was also best for self-preservation. Had DD left, I’m not so sure she’d have hired the successor. Her retirement timeline may have had to have been accelerated.
Mr.Grey just woke my ass up,too. Now turn the danged lantern off.
Wish that I could bring intell from this weekend, but I’ll be freezing my ass off in Corolla instead.
Not sure State shows a true Rover this year. Nickles are for the NFL and Irish urchins.
I am in the minority who thinks that Taggert is actually an upgrade for FSU over Jimbo
I think he was a solid hire as well and definitely an upgrade over Jimbo.
3) Place kicking will be better
The glaring hole. Dang, I sure hope so.
Did anyone happen to notice just how many 4 stahs we landed in this class? Or for that matter how many 2 stahs and less we DIDN’T have. Most of the sites I saw had everyone of our recruits as 3 and above. CTC never did that, TOB NEVER EVER came close. Say what you wish but there are some things you cannot coach up and genetics is one of them and a goodly portion of those kids with the stahs also have the genetics. Football mindset is another. You can teach and you can train and you can body build but those go only so far. And the higher the starting point the greater the end result. A few of those kids will probably turn out like Chubb, a monster, and that is how you compete with Clemson and FSU, and how you continue to stomp UNX year after year. DILLY, DILLY!
Smarter than the average bear
2) I tend to think Roof + Hux will make a good combo, particularly if that means that DD gets away from “coaching” in the games on defense. I like Hux more than most, but don’t like our 4-2-5.
Rye, Glad to see you weighing in on this conversation. I liked your other points and have no adds to them. I also think Hux and Roof will make a good combo.
I don’t know much about our 4-2-5 except that it is generally used to be more effective vs. spread type offenses. I am curious, is it that you don’t like OUR 4-2-5 or that you don’t like THE 4-2-5 generally?
A few more comments about our using the 4-2-5: without having any real or actual knowledge on the subject my guess is that DD determined that the 4-2-5 was the defense of the future and made the bold decision to switch over EVEN THO his and Hux’s knowledge and experience was with the 4-3. I’m pretty sure that cost us in the first 2 or 3 years due to the coaches not being knowledgeable in that defense. How do you coach what you don’t know yourself?
Bottom line? I’d be interested in your thoughts about the 4-2-5 and the “why’s.”
I haven’t coached any football in over 40 years. The last defense I used was the Wide Tackle six. You’ve got to be old to remember that defense. 😉
Not sure State shows a true Rover this year. Nickles are for the NFL and Irish urchins.
Thinking of the nickel position as a Rover makes more sense than thinking of the position as a nickel. Put the best effing athlete you have in at Rover, call him The Wolfman and turn him loose. Now there is some complicated, technical defensive thinking for you. 😉
I like it! Playing off of your theme, would you consider:
1) Alpha Wolf
2) Alpha Canis
3) Grande Lobo
JaxPackMan
NCSU class of '76
Jacksonville, FLI tend to think Roof + Hux will make a good combo, particularly if that means that DD gets away from “coaching” in the games on defense.
As DD matures as a Head Coach my expectation is he would become more confident in the decisions of his Coordinators and Assistants. Kind of like parenting, he holds the veto card but being a “helicopter coach” ain’t healthy.
JaxPackMan
NCSU class of '76
Jacksonville, FLThanks guys, I am really liking the direction this thread is going and also like reading all your thoughts.
I like it! Playing off of your theme, would you consider:
1) Alpha Wolf
2) Alpha Canis
3) Grande Lobo
Canis Lupus Rufus
East of Tallahassee, FL
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