A business question

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This topic contains 29 replies, has 14 voices, and was last updated by  gso packbacker 8 months ago.

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 30 total)
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  • #121231

    McCallum
    Participant

    I got played by an HR yo-yo the other day.

    I’m well paid in what I do. I explained my compensation, bonus plan etc in the 2nd interview and the HR guy says, “we are on the tail end of that package. Look over our benefits package and let us know if you really want to work here.”

    I walked out being offered the job but no numbers. Clearly they can’t meet where I’m at but the HR comment is very odd.

    What do you make of it beyond the obvious?

    McCallum

    #121314

    theghost
    Participant

    depends on how badly you want to make a change and why you’d want to take a cut, but I’d be inclined to skip the HR goob and have a conversation with the hiring manager – the goob just has a slot to get filled, the manager actually has a job to get done, he is going to be more motivated to make it work for you, if you’re the guy he’s picked. And it’s not like you need to worry about making an enemy of someone who’s chosen the HR department as a career.

    As you may can tell, I don’t think very highly of the HR profession. This guy’s comment only helps my case – he should be trying to sell you, but of course, if he were any good at that, he’d be in sales.

    #121318

    YogiNC
    Participant

    Look over our benefits package and let us know if you really want to work here

    That is HR speak for “pack up your desk, you’re on your way out”

    Sorry Mac, been there done that 4 years ago, only difference was they did that to 200 of us. Imagine 200 senior software guys getting dumped into the Raleigh market at one time. Took me six months to find a new gig, friends of mine still haven’t recovered. I will say this though, 8 months after I was laid off they called and offered my job back. Seems they had been somewhat “hasty” and didn’t see some of the pitfalls of letting so much “valuable talent” walk out the door. My reply “Walk out the door??? are you kidding me? You kicked me out the door.” And with that I slammed down the phone.

    If I had seen some of that coming I would have looked around BEFORE I got the boot, problem was they had held that so close to the vest no one saw it coming. At least you have a warning. Start looking and quickly, at this point they have already expressed their lack of loyalty to you. 20 years at a company means nothing today. At least for me it only took me 18 months in my new gig to surpass the pay I was getting before and to move up to “top dog” on my team. I do miss the extra week of vacation BUT I have a manager that doesn’t nitpick over ever hour I’m in the office and makes sure I’m compensated in time off for all overtime.

    Good luck, in today’s market place you’ll need it, and don’t get discouraged. There are places out there where you’d be valued, just not where you are now, from my perspective. For me it worked out great and I’m happier than I’ve been in years. Maybe it’s time for a paradigm shift.

    Smarter than the average bear

    #121321

    McCallum
    Participant

    Yogi,

    I’m looking to switch.

    I was given a half offer.

    McCallum

    #121324

    ryebread
    Participant

    Talk to the hiring manager. They’re the one who wants you. They’re the one who has to find budget for you. They’re the one who has to go to bat. They’re the one that has to build the teams. They’re often at odds with HR.

    HR’s job is to pay you the least possible amount you’d be willing to take to do the job. Apologies to any HR types who might be our readership. I think you do a thankless job and do advacote for the average employee at a macro level, but this is not one of those ways.

    #121327

    McCallum
    Participant

    This is the hiring-firing person.

    A little too nice, too friendly then send me out the door with an offer but no compensation package.

    McCallum

    #121335

    Texpack
    Participant

    My post didn’t show up here

    #121393

    Heelh8r
    Participant

    Assuming you talked to the only person you have access to, I have two thoughts.

    First, he does not seem to be a very employee friendly kind of guy. Are you sure you want to work for this company, considering they already told you they cannot meet your present salary level?

    Second, it you do still want to pursue this job, I like to go on offense. It doesn’t always work, but he has clearly put the ball in your court, it’s your move. You can take whatever they are offering, or you can negotiate. I say take it to the rim. Tell the guy you have looked over the benefits package, you would really like to make it work, but you are not looking to make a backwards move. Tell him why you are worth what you are asking and what you can do for the company, and how you can make money for him or save him money. Have a good answer for every question he can ask, and stay aggressive in justifying your worth.

    What do I make of his offer? It seems to me he is looking for someone cheap, so it is up to you to change his mind.

    #121395

    wolfpackdawg
    Participant

    http:

    #121396

    bill.onthebeach
    Participant

    I wonder if the HR jerk knows that with McCallum the company’s getting a hidden TWO for ONE…

    A hard working guy who will get the job done right the first time…

    AND

    And the other McCallum who can strut into the Boardroom and tell the CEO and all the VPs why they are all f’ing idiots and why whatever they’re thinking won’t work the way they think it will….

    and make ’em smile…

    Ya’ll know that second guy pays for himself every time….

    #OverTwentyYearsCheating?
    #121397

    gso packbacker
    Participant

    McCallum,
    Assuming you won’t send the HR person a link to this board with your witty repartee, I suggest the following.

    First, figure out if this is the job you want compensation aside. If yes, proceed.

    Next, thoroughly review everything and afterwards determine what you believe is fair compensation (doesn’t matter yet what anyone else thinks)

    Finally, call (email if you must) the HR person and tell them that you thought about your conversation over the weekend and that you are very excited about the organization and the opportunity. You’ve reviewed all of the benefits information and wanted to discuss compensation more specifically. Tell them that (again) that you are at X. Then state that if they make an official offer at X’, you will accept, tender your resignation and start in 2 weeks.

    This isn’t hardball, but just a matter of getting to the the point They now know that if they offer at X’, you will accept Anything below that opens the door to being turned down. Super simple and no game playing. I do this all the time and I hate “negotiating”.

    Fwiw, I am scheduled to do this tomorrow morning with a CIO and it is for a $120k offer. They want to come in at 115k + 5k up front, but that opens up the possibility of a turn down. You can’t make decisions for others, just give them all the data to make an informed decision

    p.s. it wasn’t an offer from HR, it was in essence a promise ring. All but meaningless.

    #121406

    Texpack
    Participant

    Why did you interview?

    #121432

    YogiNC
    Participant

    Iā€™m looking to switch.

    Sorry McC, I thought you were getting that internally. If they knew where you already are and were not even going to come close why even interview you? Did they think they were going to get steak for the price of a burger? Did the job posting not list the pay/benefits? Did you go through a recruiting firm to set up the interview? If so those guys should have vetted the job offering before you even got there, them’s the rules of dealing through recruiters.

    Smarter than the average bear

    #121436

    McCallum
    Participant

    Perspectives are appreciated gentlemen. I’ve been trying to figure out the angle and it appears to be related to a culture issue and looking for cheap.

    I figured to supply them with a “solve for x” situation because frankly I’ve grown tired of thinking about it.

    A bit pissed as well.

    McCallum

    #121441

    BassPacker
    Participant

    Is this in the private sector or government related like State employment? My wife works for the State, this has become common tactics for those nearing retirement or tenure. No loyality anymore. Its like the HR dept gets incentives for pushing higher paying employees out the door, which may, not sure. It makes for a stressful work place.

    #121443

    GoldenChain
    Participant

    McC at the ripe old age of 59 I’m interviewing too; my suggestion is to say “hey, i like the company and position, please lay out the package for me in detail if you think I’d be a valuable addition to your team.”

    I think the more direct you are the better for everybody. If they can’t or won’t lay it out then it probably isn’t a place you’d be happy at long term anyway.

    All of us are looking for different things, I’m more of a cash/incentive guy myself but I’ve been in industrial sales for 35 years now too; pay me enough and I’ll take care of my own teeth & eyes.

    #121444

    gso packbacker
    Participant

    If it is a one-person issue, I suggest rethinking. However, if it is a company culture issue, politely pull yourself from consideration and run away.

    As NC State fans, I think we can all appreciate the how difficult it is for organization culture to make significant change for the better. :)

    #121445

    gso packbacker
    Participant

    Well put GC!

    #121446

    YogiNC
    Participant

    A bit pissed as well.

    I wouldn’t have a clue what you’re talking about there (sarcastic rhetoric). The chickens at the top have shoved the poop to the HR guys and expected them to shoot it so that the said producers of the poop are protected. No matter how you look at it though it’s still chicken poop.

    Smarter than the average bear

    #121457

    TheCOWDOG
    Moderator

    From the desert on a Bloody Mary Monday.
    You question the fit?
    Fuxx’em Freddie…move on.

    #121523

    Greywolf
    Participant

    …but the HR comment is very odd.

    If you are anything in an interview like you are on this site, the HR comment was likely in kind. We can blow smoke up your a$$ with our comments about how great you are and what a jerk the HR guy is but most are professionals at shiffing out BS and assessing worth to their companies.

    Of course you may be entirely different in an interview than you are here but how likely is that? IMO your best bet is to be accountable for your failure to get the offer you wanted and continue to look for opportunities. Do your own due diligence. Research the culture of the companies you interview and adjust your game plan to suit.

    #121576

    McCallum
    Participant

    ^
    Missed the Geritol today I see.

    McCallum

    #121596

    Greywolf
    Participant

    ^
    Missed the Geritol today I see.

    McCallum

    Usually when I complain about some perceived injustice, I can find a “friend” or 2 who tell me what I want to hear. You certainly found those here. Once and a while someone talks straight and tells me what I don’t want to hear. Unfortunately I usually respond with some smart-arsed remark. On the rare occasions I wipe the pigeon sh!t (Hoosiers reference) out of my eye and see the situation as it really is, I’m ahead of the game.

    Consider that who you were being elicited the odd HR response, had him see you as he did and make an unacceptable (to you) offer without bothering to put numbers on it. I either learn from my mistakes or make them again and again. I’ve learned over time and through hard experience that I can do something about the way I’m being to change situations but never someone else.

    I apologize if I offended you with my first post and now with this one. I can see I was insensitive to your situation. No apology for the content but for sure for the presentation.

    Good luck with getting the job and compensation you want even if this isn’t it.

    Edit:
    Keatts may not have the qualifications of some other coach or coaches who interviewed but his presentation, who he was being in the interview, carried the day. This is what I was/am trying to say.

    Greywolf

    #121601

    gso packbacker
    Participant

    I had a great response, but it is apparently now somewhere in the ether and it is too length to retype.

    Regardless, Grey makes a great point about looking at one’s self first. I’m pretty sure we’d all agree (minus most of the media) if this was Coach Gott bemoaning that he “got played” by NC State. Different situation, but perhaps not as much as you think. šŸ˜‰

    #121618

    StateRed44
    Participant

    If it’s something you absolutely have to have, take it, then continue to look. If you are much better where you are I’d stay put. Or if you got room to play, maybe they will meet you halfway. Tell them you accept the job, but ran the numbers and can’t make the numbers work so you must get more promised before you start and don’t want to lose your cars, house, wife and kids. If they can’t bump up to an acceptable position stay put.

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