I don't think it's 'good' necessarily considering the talent experience level of our team as well as understanding that the caliber of opponents (with exception of Michigan) that we've lost to is sub par.

Thanks for the great statistical research!

I tend to agree with your view...especially in light of the fact that we've played the 19th toughest schedule in the country to this point of the season.

Of course, it is tough when four games (Michigan, Wake, Maryland & Virginia) were all within 1 possession in the last minute of the game AND all had some AWFUL officiating in the process. (Including TWO different games where TV Teddy jobbed CJ Leslie in something that looks awfully close to a personal grudge.

I don't think Maryland is anything to write home about (not this year anyway), but I agree UVA is legit, esp playing in Charlottesville. I can certainly forgive that loss too when 75% of the game we don't have access to one the best point guards in the country.

Wake Forest loss hurt... no excuse for that one.

Also noticed that our record on Saturday's is 7-0 so far this year...hope this holds to 8-0 on Saturday

Like most things, it depends on perspective and expectations.

There is a >50% chance that 16-5 is going to become 16-7. Which would move our current team closer to ~50% of our history. Which would be very disappointing considering our talent.

We SHOULD have beaten Maryland. We HAD to beat WtFU. We should be 18-3. So yes, it is pretty bad.

I don't think it is so bad. You don't win every game you should win. The concern with several close losses is when does the team learn enough to win those games? Coming down the stretch against UVA (without our PG I know) how did we not create scoring those last four possessions..... not good. Against Wake how do we not get more points at the end (yeah missed ft's). I think our record isn't that bad if we can get learning out of it come March.

Also note Wake lost with 5 to Duke yesterday and led very late in the game.....

Part of my point here is that it won't be until the end of the year that we will really be able to establish whether this particular 16-5 is a good one or a bad one. In 2005-2006 we started the season 17-4 and finished 5-6. Clearly that 17-4 wasn't good enough. On the other hand in 82-83, we started 13-8 and finished 13-2 and cut down the nets.

There is a lot of talk on SFN about our expectations (realistic or not), or performance based on experience (was there really any prior evidence that CJ Leslie was going to be "engaged" 100% of the time).

So really, my point is (as a wolf pack fan who had season tickets during the Les Robinson, Herb Sendek, Sidney Lowe, and now Mark Gottfried eras), is that our potential and performance are much higher now than where we've been.

Now, of course, someone is going to tell me that the last 20 years doesn't count as part of our history, but then consider...outside the three years that David Thompson played for us, the remaining 57 years, we've only won 24 or more games 5 times (including last year). Jim Valvano only had one team that one more than 24 games.

We have (by my count), 10 remaining regular season games, 3 or 4 ACC Tournament games, and up to 6 post season tournament games...I think all told this team wins 24+ games and if it does, it should be recognized as one of the best we've ever had.

I suspect that there is a bit of apples to oranges in this comparison, because I suspect that in many of the older seasons, we would have played more than 8 ACC games by the time we had played 21 games. Regardless, it's interesting.

I think it is bad because losses against Wake and Maryland should not have happened, and if we were "all that" we would have taken care of UVA down the stretch and won.

We've won ONE road game in the ACC. And we're about to go on the road to the likes of Duke, to UNC, to Clemson - who gave us a tough game at home, to GT - who gave us a tough game at home, etc.

Frankly, I see State as being labeled a bubble team by the middle of this month and us having to win on Thursday and Friday in the ACCT to ensure an NCAA bid. As far as I am concerned, this is a team that's lacks heart unless it has the national spotlight on it for a big game, and it is one that is incapable of dealing with the difficult circumstances that is playing on the road. Our backcourt defense is quite frankly a joke and we have one forward whose defense wouldn't cut the mustard on a high school team much less the ACC.

This.

The only WTF loss in my opinion is the Oklahoma St one, and that's only because of the margin of victory (if I recall, it really wasn't as close as the final margin would indicate) and because the team was really never competitive in that game. Blowout losses like that one should not be happening with this team - that was one of my expectations for the year that hasn't been met. But it's only happened once.

I understand the comments about the WtF game in Winston-Salem. But WFU is #125 in RPI at the moment, so don't pretend that they're at the bottom of the barrel. And they've held their own at home this year, like a lot of otherwise nondescript teams. Yes, I watched Duke beat them at home, but it was a 5-point game, and Duke had some help.

I've said before that the team definitely has issues: unforced turnovers are too high, offensive rebounding sucks, nobody REALLY plays good defense consistently, and the frosh are still learning about big-time basketball, traveling to hostile environment, and keeping your focus.

My answer: no, 16-5 is NOT bad at this point. It's also not great. RPI is still solid at #19. There will likely be even more losses in the immediate future, playing higher caliber competition on the road. I still think we're setting up well for post-season success. The team just needs to focus, take care of enough business that we're not sitting on pins and needles on selection Sunday, and keep working toward that March peak.

If we lose 5 out of the next 8, I'll be glad to have this discussion again and fry up a big 'ol batch of crow.

I never allowed my expectations to get too high, and guys, I'm still having fun watching. Such a difference from the majority of the last couple of decades.

It would have been nice to be 18-3 or 19-2 at this point and yes I'm very slightly bummed that we aren't, but realistically I can't be upset with how this season has gone up to this point.




Going a strong and mostly very well played 3-0 over UConn, Duke, and UNC midway through the year has all but wiped away 20 years of pure frustration for me and will be savored for a good while - even if we do fall flat the rest of the way. Being that each of those three games resulted in extremely positive national exposure makes it all the sweeter. Disclaimer: I hate UConn just about as much as the *former* blue hegemony.





The 3 winnable ACC losses stunk but I get the continued sense that this team is so very close/capable of being great - with LB of course. And I haven't felt that since the fire and ice days. And that is a very welcome feeling.

Losing games on the road to WF, MD, and UVA hurt. I'm glad at where we are now, but a little disappointed we didn't take advantage of the "easier" games. (yes I know they were road games but the talent was less)

After thinking about it tonight, this team is starting to resemble the arc of the 1983 team. Hmmm.

Apples and Oranges on the # of wins comparison..During a good portion of those years that are discounted, there weren't enough opportunities to win 24 unless you went undefeated in a lot of those years. With 14 ACC regular season games, a few OOC, the ACC Tourney, you'd have to be winning the ACC Tourney to advance to the NCAA's!.

I think before a sports season begins, we should build a consensus here on the expectation for that season. Then we measure against that expectation for the season. I feel like we lose all objectivity when looking back at all the would ofs, should ofs, and dids.

I, for one, am totally excited about this team right now. I was in the house for the Miami game, and it was truly a great college basketball game. Very well played game between two of the best teams in the country. Jimmy V used to talk about putting yourself in a position to win the game. This team has done that every game (except OSU). Close games can go either way. By no means do I feel that its a lack of coaching or the players choking. The guys played with tremendous intensity on both ends on Saturday. I can't wait until Thursday. We may win or lose, but it certainly will not be a blowout either way.

After that, the schedule is much easier the rest of the way. There are no teams that we "fear" playing, but I guarantee that when the ACCT comes around, NOBODY will want to play the Wolfpack!

Another thing you can say about this team -- they are just plain fun to watch! There is never a dull moment. The style is exciting and dynamic. Yes, it reminds one of the Fire, Ice and Gugs teams, and the Lowe, Whitt & Bailey teams.

Thank you. I just wanted to throw my optimism into the mix.

In fact there were some preseason conversations (like this one on the main blog), but understand that the participants are a very small fraction of the overall community. And you should note that a large number of very knowledgeable, well-respected posters elected to eschew this conversation. As Va (himself a respected eschew'er in this case) notes above, this is an extremely diverse community...