Lowlights – State in a spiral

14-15 Basketball92

State is in a spiral. The ultimate question that needs to be answered will be, “Is State in a DEATH spiral?”. All is not lost yet. But, it is slipping away fast. The Pack has fallen to the wrong side of all projected NCAA Tournament bubbles and currently sits at #56 in the RPI having played the 4th toughest schedule in the country. State has five wins over teams currently ranked in the Top 100; and hasn’t lost to a single team ranked worse than #85 (Purdue). With a record of 13-9 overall, however, State MUST win some games to have an overall record attractive enough to merit an NCAA Tournament bid.

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14-15 Basketball

Home › Forums › Lowlights – State in a spiral

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  • 01/29/2015 at 8:55 AM #72054
    StateFans
    Keymaster

    State is in a spiral. The ultimate question that needs to be answered will be, “Is State in a DEATH spiral?”. All is not lost yet. But, it is slipping
    [See the full post at: Lowlights – State in a spiral]

    01/29/2015 at 9:33 AM #72060
    TMD11
    Participant

    All I know is that NCSU basketball is not a championship calibre program, no championship level mentality or play or coaching…nothing.
    It’s that simple.
    Playing at home or away it doesn’t matter.

    Its always one thing or another that results in loss after loss after loss.
    It is difficult to support a program that doesn’t strive for excellence.

    01/29/2015 at 9:44 AM #72061
    redisgood
    Participant

    They are not who I thought they were. (and not in a good way)

    01/29/2015 at 9:44 AM #72062
    ryebread
    Participant

    Was anyone really surprised by last night’s result? We’re in year four, and it’s clear what we’ve Gott.

    There’s way, way more talent on this team than our record. I’ve seen a lot of mediocre to bad basketball over the last 20 years, and this team is among the NC State leaders for doing less with more. It’s up there with the Brown/CJL/Howell/Wood year and HWSNBN’s 5th season (Wilkins last year before Hodge).

    Coming out flat, blowing leads, poor FT shooting (except for a guy named Scott Wood who single handedly raised our team’s percentage), weak with the ball against tough defense, poor defense and poor end of game strategy are consistent issues. At a certain point, if you rotate out the players and still see the same trends, it’s the coaching.

    My question is how much longer it takes for this thing to unfold and what opportunities pass us by while it does. I fully suspect Gott to be back next year, but with the seat officially warm. The question to me is what happens to Archie/Smart/Marshall (which I think would have to be our top 3 targets).

    01/29/2015 at 9:55 AM #72063
    Khan
    Participant

    We’re not very good.

    01/29/2015 at 10:01 AM #72065
    44rules
    Participant

    Don’t know what to say. The only half of basketball I can remember that was this atrocious was the Dudley Bradley game. Gloom, despair and agony on me.

    I’ve never been anti-Gott. But after last night I really have trouble defending him. I’m not smart enough to know if Archie is “the man” some claim him to be. Could be, I just don’t know.

    Communism is not love. Communism is a hammer which we use to crush the enemy. Mao Zedong

    01/29/2015 at 10:03 AM #72066
    eas
    Participant

    Let’s just hope to finish the season off better than it is now. Nothing else can be done with the current situation so let’s make the best of it.

    We have the same team (record/effort/inconsistent) as we did 4 years ago with one major exception…We have MORE talent now. This just makes it even more frustrating!!!!

    On a positive note I do feel Gott has helped us with PR a good bit.

    No matter what we are STILL a Bubble Team at best in year 4. I would imagine that’s not what most of us wanted at this point.

    Let’s hope to run the table and keep playing!!! What else is there to do at this point?

    So dang frustrating! I swear Wolfpack basketball is like the Hotel California. You can check in but never leave the middle/lower end of the ACC

    01/29/2015 at 10:04 AM #72067
    Whiteshoes67
    Participant

    Miami and Norte dame beat us again last night…but..

    I met Mg at a non-ncsu related event in year 2, and came away with the impression that he was an ass and a shyster. Same year, his team’s effort and performance confirmed nothing had changed from his days in Alabama. There was a lot of talk and optimism here after those first two seasons–and a lot of excuses about lowe’s recruits and importance of a few upperclassmen who graduated or transferred. But plenty of folks knew what we got when we hired mg.

    This team is not mentally or physically tough. Its collective bb iq is bad. Its not disciplined. think mg knows he’s in trouble now, and is grasping.

    All teams evolve and should grow and improve as a season progresses and fr are integrated, but it should’ve been crystal clear early on what the identity of the team was, where its strengths lay, and where there was room for progress.

    I think mg recognizes some of those strengths and weaknesses but he’s too stubborn, arrogant, or lazy to alter course. Lot of talk, but that bone don’t have much marrow

    01/29/2015 at 10:15 AM #72068
    Whiteshoes67
    Participant

    Id have thrown a boatload at Marshall with a long-term contract and many performance bonuses.

    If we start looking next year, I go there first. Then I want young, fresh, hardworking coaches who have built programs, can teach, motivate, and win. I don’t even look at guys who’ve inherited successful gigs and squads. It’s like wealth, some who inherit it have the it factor. But you’ll find many a pretender if you go that route.

    01/29/2015 at 10:37 AM #72074
    Adventuroo
    Participant

    WhiteShoes67
    If your screen name is correct, you many have been a resident of Berry when I was in there. Lot of the NCSU FB’ers in the lower levels.
    I cannot disagree that MG does have his warts…..and some of them popped up right after he got here.
    I have met and talked to just about every coach since Sloan….maybe not Robinson. Valvano was somewhat arrogant….especially in his latter years. I am probably the biggest V fan and have been called a Valvanatic….someone who thinks that Jimmy V never, ever made a mistake or took a shortcut.
    Sloan was probably the most genuine….but had a temper. Lowe was, by far, a gentleman….and I admit to having a soft spot for his character and later realized that he was not cut out to be our coach.

    SO, if you look at the “character” of the winning coaches…..they each could be called stubborn, arrogant, or lazy (in that they do not want to alter course). The perfect HWWNBSOH line when asked about a special or junk defense to shut down Duke when they creamed us in the ACC Final….”We never practiced that….”

    I was there last night and have been at just about every PNC game for the past 10 years or so. What I saw was a team that came out cookin’….perhaps inspired and ready to prove something. We looked awesome for about 3 minutes….then we took a bunch of licks. We were totally out of sync. We could not respond. We were not aggressive on the inside when putting up shots and could not hit (FITB) from the outside. We gave Clemson the ball….we had only 3 or 4 assists in the first half…but 10 TO.

    To our credit, we did come back. But the physical intensity to do that took its toll.

    I am not defending Coach G. I question some of his decisions. I also think that we seem to have a pretty level headed and competent staff….especially Lutz.

    We were playing 3 Fr; 1 Soph & 1 Jr last night. I daresay that we had at least a 30% Freshman team…..HOLD ON… I just pulled the stats. We had a Freshman on the floor for 65 minutes last night. That is 1.625 Players or 32.5%. So we had a lot of inexperience. Note….this Freshman class is not NEARLY as highly rated at the Purvis, Warren, Lewis trio…..

    Turner was off. Coach G was a shooter. He understands, or is supposed to understand that the only way to get into a rhythm is to keep jacking it up. So, he let Turner try….and it was only the last score of the game when Ralston hit.

    I agree that this was a ill timed and horrid loss. However, I think it was more of a player issue than a coaching issue.

    We (the team) DID let ND beat us the second time…but I don’t know how you correct that. Our line-up was helter-skelter last night….and it showed.

    Besides….he has a 7 year (got renewed the first year by going to St. Louis in the Sweet 16….where I also traveled). He ain’t gonna be bought out….for a while.

    Rehashing his hiring lets folks vent. Debbie did what she thought was best and the rug got pulled out from under her by Gary Williams and Shaka’s PG wife. She followed the same path and got Coach D…..who is now being given Messiah status. Gott also wore that crown for a while.

    When you make the $$ that we are paying….you better deliver….Remember the DUMB things that we all did in the 60’s….I would not want to make a living trying to get 20 YO’s to do what I tell them when they KNOW they are smarter than me…

    01/29/2015 at 10:38 AM #72075
    Ed89
    Participant

    Marshall ain’t gonna work for Debbie. That ship has sailed.
    MG may be an ass and a shyster, but that doesn’t mean he couldn’t be a good coach. However, we have to hope last night was an anomaly. We will see on Saturday. GT is awful. I bet they play their best perimeter defense of the season. Teams are starting to figure us out. Foul and hand-check our perimeter guys. Refs aren’t calling anything and our guys can’t get any good looks.
    My biggest complaint and question is “WHERE WAS KYLE WASHINGTON?” He is our only big that is an offensive threat, plays good D, and hustles. I saw him on the bench even encouraging our guys when they got down by 9-10 and it was slipping away again. Cat has got to start driving and looking to pass first. If he gets a shot, shoot it. If not, pass to Abu or Washington or Martin.
    Something is amiss with Lacey and Turner. The Martin twins are MUCH MORE athletic than Lacey and Turner. They need to be on the court. If Turner ain’t hitting shots, he needs to be benched right away.
    We need to win 6 of our last 9.

    01/29/2015 at 10:45 AM #72077
    nav
    Participant

    It seems this is our curse as a program. Every year around the end of Jan to early Feb we start a losing streak that puts us on the outside of the bubble. Then towards the end of Feb we get hot enough to win a few games to end the season and win the first couple of ACC tourney games to squeak into the Big Dance.

    It’s crap like this that make me wish I could just turn in my State fandom lifetime membership card and become a fan of another school. This is endless misery.

    01/29/2015 at 10:51 AM #72078
    packbackr04
    Participant

    so Gott has 3 yrs left on his deal after this year? For those familiar with his contract, how much Murphy money is that to buy him out? Getting rid of Gott is inevitable at this point. If we wait one more yr (for financial reasons) we run the risk of losing out on Archie, who as Rick pointed out is our only alum that is a great coaching prospect. DY needs to go ahead and pull the trigger on this one.

    01/29/2015 at 10:57 AM #72080
    packbackr04
    Participant

    I also think DY could sell it as that, no need to lie. Simply state She likes MG, and thinks he is a fine coach, but when you get the opportunity to bring in someone you think could be special, you do it.

    Its also not like MG is achieving the goal he and DY stated at his introductory PC. Which was to be a consistent top 25 team. Hell, i cant remember when he was ever in the top 25 other than the beginning of his second year (after the S16 run we opened the season at like 23)but we lost like our second game of the season and have never been back.

    01/29/2015 at 11:02 AM #72082
    ryebread
    Participant

    After the Sweet 16 run, we started the season #6. Then we got completely whacked by Oklahoma State and not long after were were out of the Top 25. We’ve not been back to my memory.

    01/29/2015 at 11:11 AM #72084
    PapaJohn
    Participant

    Only one word fits, CHOKE!
    The going got tough and our guys collapsed. Pitiful performance.

    Somebody Gott their attention at the half, which was encouraging, but we needed a few breaks to go our way that didn’t. And then when we cut it to three, and we got a couple of bad breaks, they weren’t tough enough to gut it out and keep working hard.

    Absolutely embarrassing performance. I’ve got season tix, but don’t think I can stand to watch us get schooled by UVA again, and Cuse. Maybe I’ll go to Va Tech. Or maybe enough is enough for this year.

    01/29/2015 at 11:16 AM #72086
    Adventuroo
    Participant

    PackBackr04, et. al.

    factoids….

    Gott’s contract sets his base at $750K….so you need to get $2.25K. That money comes from the AD budget. We do not (are not allowed?) to use DONOR money. The WPC and other donors do NOT contribute to Coach’s salary like UNC and Duke and others do. That was one of the “RULES” set down and pushed down our throat by the UNC BOG during the Jimmy V. witch hunt. The Ram’s Club makes a sizeable donation to Roy and Larry’s checks….all the WPC $$ (8.8 MILLION….there was a check given last night) ONLY goes to the Athletes…..not the AD or the Coach’s. The UNC BOG was dominated by UNC-CH grads who stacked the deck against us for years….while developing their own little flim flam.

    Tyler, Rodney and TJ and Cat were Mickey D selections. Trevor was a Parade AA & 24th overall. Cat was a Mickey D & 27th overall. BJ was 58th overall. Caleb was a 4 Star as was Cody. Caleb was 60th and Cody was 81st. Turner was a 3 Star and 142nd overall.

    SO we do not have the talent that we once had. We have some maturity in Trevor and Turner. Last night we saw Des play more than I have seen him in a LONG time…

    GT will be the real test….to quote Gott “The team did not play well last night”. Mikey and Roy have said that on more than one occasion this year….Mikey said it after WE beat them.

    Don’t hear their fans calling for a buyout.

    01/29/2015 at 11:30 AM #72088
    ncsu_kappa
    Participant

    hey guys the sky isn’t falling. we have played one of the toughest SOS’s in the country we’ve had a few tough losses and really bad one last night.

    Wow you would think we were two totally different fan bases after the duke win and last night’s loss. Its still the same kids, the same coach, we just had a few WTF losses like young teams do.

    Last night doesn’t prove it but we are improving. We are building a program. Our best player has been in it 2/3’s a season, virtually everyone else has been in it less than 2 years. We lost an entire class of would be juniors to draft / transfers (all of which were McD AA’s) and here we are competing with anyone in the country.

    again we are near the ledge but even one bad season – which you can do alot worse than top 50 rpi – but lets see what Gott is able to build. if “if” was a fifth we’d all be drunk… but if the ball bounces our way here or there we are looking at a ranked team with the same players and coach. I don’t think we are that far off… especially giving the actual circumstances

    01/29/2015 at 11:57 AM #72092
    ryebread
    Participant

    adventur: Respectfully, any comparison between Duke and UNC and what we have done and fan expectations is a complete joke. Doherty lost to HWSNBN a couple of times and they had him out so fast, it was amazing. And that was with him stacking up the talent that Roy used to win that first title.

    I’m so tired of being told to “be patient” and K and Beamer trotted out as examples of rewarded patience. For every K and Beamer there are 100 that don’t pan out. It’s time for NC State to start being pragmatic. We’re in year 4. It’s four years of the same stuff. We got hot at the end of year 1. I think we’ve seen where this is going.

    As for the schedule, it’s been tough, but part of it being tough is because we’ve lost the games. These strength of schedule numbers are effectively zero sum games. You win, your strength of schedule goes down because that team takes another loss. You win and the ripple effect that impacts the team you’ve played’s one and loss record also causes that to get lower (for any team with common opponents). Our strength of schedule is artificially inflated because we have lost 9 times.

    Let’s look at this another way. We’re at the spot where we’ve losed to a mid-major (at home and at Reynolds), Clemson at home, blown huge leads consistently, lost to 3 out of 4 “name” teams non-conference that we’ve played (only win was against Tennessee) and been completely abused by any team that pressed us. Is that where NC State basketball should be? If this is the state in year 4, what’s coming that is going to change that?

    Gott needs big talent to win. From what I can tell, we don’t have that walking through the door.

    01/29/2015 at 12:02 PM #72093
    wufpup76
    Keymaster
    PapaJohn wrote:

    Maybe I’ll go to Va Tech

    Watching the last couple of VT games, the appearance to me was that VT plays hard consistently for 40 minutes. I don’t think the same can be said for State at this point.

    Save for last night, our team has shown some good character. They still do have a tendency to go lax when things don’t go their way though – and that’s not a part of playing hard for 40 minutes. I would not at all be shocked for VT to outwork State and get a win.

    I had a bad feeling about last night, and unfortunately wasn’t proven wrong. I was surprised however at that first half. That was awful. I definitely don’t envy the staff today – trying to put this back together. But State being State, we’re almost always our best when absolutely nothing is expected of us. Yay culture change.

    01/29/2015 at 12:04 PM #72094
    JVM4PACK
    Participant

    I realize when a team is hot, the location doesn’t matter the shots just fall for them, but is it just me or is the PNC arena the perfect place for one of the following to occur frequently
    – an opposing team to break out of their slump
    – or a player to have their biggest season high
    – or a poor 3pt shooting team has a 50-75% night against us
    – or a bottom dweller plays like conference champs against us

    01/29/2015 at 12:14 PM #72097
    wufpup76
    Keymaster
    JVM4PACK wrote:

    I realize when a team is hot, the location doesn’t matter the shots just fall for them, but is it just me or is the PNC arena the perfect place for one of the following to occur frequently
    – an opposing team to break out of their slump
    – or a player to have their biggest season high
    – or a poor 3pt shooting team has a 50-75% night against us
    – or a bottom dweller plays like conference champs against us

    ^Unfortunately, the common denominator in all of that is that N.C. State is one of the teams … not so much PNC 🙁

    Roper for Clemson hadn’t done shit all season. Faces N.C. State – All-ACC.

    I feel your pain.

    01/29/2015 at 12:32 PM #72098
    pakfanistan
    Participant

    WTH is going on with Cat? We were -15 with him on the court, and +4 with him off.

    01/29/2015 at 12:37 PM #72100
    choppack1
    Participant

    Jvm4pack – you think those are all just coincidences or are they a reflection of our bad d?

    It’s not unusual for a team to have a wtf game every 10 games or so. And that’s what happened last night. However, for gott’s teams these are huge since we are usually one of the last 10 or so teams in the tourney.

    I’ve said earlier in the year, you can only be on the right side of the bubble so often before you gravitate to one side or the other. We know what side of it gott ultimately ended up on at Alabama.

    I suspect this is tob 2 – you hire a coach from a major conference with a substantial book of work…and you get roughly what he produced in the similar situation.

    01/29/2015 at 12:37 PM #72101
    ryebread
    Participant

    pakfanistan: The same things that have been happening all year it seems.

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