ACC Update

 

These conference updates are always a lot more fun after a win.   So let’s get right to the conference summary table:

1_12_RPI

The development of the selection criteria is summarized in this entry.

Let’s follow up my standard summary table with a few trending charts:

(Note that the graphs can be viewed full size by clicking on them.)

 

IN_1_!2

 

Bubble_1_12

 

So let’s start our discussion with the big movers.

Starting the ACC schedule 0-3 was not exactly what the Bees had in mind.   They’ve fallen from “IN” down into the outer regions of the bubble over the course of those first three games.   I still haven’t watched them play and if they have another week like this past one, I won’t even bother.

Syracuse made a nice upward move that deserves a little closer look.   A 3-0 start with wins on the road against GT and VT along with a home win against FSU is “good”, but certainly not impressive.   Note that two of those wins came against the bottom third of the conference.   Yet even with less than stellar competition, their overall SOS ranks 69 after an OOC SOS that currently ranks 81.    My point here is that beating teams in the lower portion of the major conferences is better than beating the average mid-major…and of course road wins really help the RPI ranking as well.

However, I’m not ready to start making optimistic projections for the Orange.   Their Top-100 wins came against GT (#57), Iowa (#66), and Long Beach State (#71).   They have lost to Villanova (#5), St. John’s (#43), Michigan (#93) and Cal (#114).   It’s pretty clear that Syracuse has a lot of work left to do if they want to make the NCAAT.

ND also made a nice move up the rankings with wins against GT and a road win in Chapel Hill.   Along with the win over UNC, they also have a Top-50 win against Mich St and a couple of potentially good wins against UMass (#54) and GT (#57).   Their two losses were against Top 25 teams.   So if you compare their top wins and losses to both State and Syracuse, you would expect ND to be ranked higher than both teams.   However, their miserable OOC schedule (currently ranked 301) is dragging their ranking down.   I’ll spare you another OOC scheduling tirade because it couldn’t happen to a nicer school.

Then of course, State made a huge leap up from the New Year’s entry with wins against Pitt and Duke along with a road loss to UVA.   If you scan down the RPI rankings, there are only a few teams with 5 losses in the Top 40, including State.   As of Sunday’s games, State’s overall SOS ranks 7th and that is clearly paying big dividends in State’s current RPI ranking.   The overall SOS will likely fall when State plays the weaker teams in the ACC, but once again State’s OOC schedule will help balance things out.

Of course, there has to be some bad news to go along with the big win on Sunday. Pitt lost to Clemson at home (repeat that to yourself at least two more times) dropping to RPI Ranking #88 and falling out of sight low on the Bubble Graph.   After Duke, State’s next three best wins are Tenn (#69) (déjà vu to last year), Boise State (#74), and Pitt.   So it looks like Duke could easily end up being the only resume building win through this part of the schedule.   Obviously this is not the end of the world, but it would be nice if a few of the teams that State has beaten would actually pick up the pace after losing to State.

One other thing to keep in mind…After Wednesday’s game against UNC, State will have played four of its first five games at home.   Thus there are a lot of road games coming up for State, especially in the second half of the schedule.

In the Jan 1 entry, we had a commenter making some brash projections about the bottom of the ACC.   So let’s see how those projections are doing so far:

ACC_Distribution_1_12

So far, the increase in SOS has improved the RPI rankings pretty much across the board for the ACC.   It will be interesting to follow this graph through the season…especially since half of the conference already has a losing conference record and three teams are still looking for their first conference win.

About VaWolf82

Engineer living in Central Va. and senior curmudgeon amongst SFN authors One wife, two kids, one dog, four vehicles on insurance, and four phones on cell plan...looking forward to empty nest status. Graduated 1982

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Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 39 total)
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  • #69323
    VaWolf82
    Keymaster

      These conference updates are always a lot more fun after a win.   So let’s get right to the conference summary table:
    [See the full post at: ACC Update]

    #69326
    wufpup76
    Keymaster

    I was gonna put up a check-in later today – thanks for saving me some work! 😉

    And my prediction is not even gonna come close hahaha.

    Good work as always.

    #69328
    Lunatic Fringe
    Participant

    Syracuse’s road just got a bit harder with starter McCullough going down…6-10 PF average 28 mins, 9 points, and 7 rebounds. For a team who has struggled to score this season…losing anyone contributing is not a good thing. McCullough will also impact their D…had 33 blocks this year.

    They will hover around bubble until last 7 games of conference. Originally, I was envious of their schedule backloaded vs front loaded with younger team, but win vs Duke really changes everything.

    #69329
    Texpack
    Participant

    Finishing with a boat load of road games makes the Duke win even more important. The confidence combined with the fact that getting a top 15 win on the road late would be really tough to do will hopefully allow the guys to relax and stay aggressive.

    It’s performance review time at work, so if you did a review on Gott every year, he’d score highest in the area of scheduling. The man knows what he’s doing in that department for sure. If we beat UNC-CH we can start the conversations about seeding for the dance. I haven’t watched anybody in the ACC that we haven’t played. I’ll be interested to see if the line between the haves and the have nots stays where it is.

    #69334
    JeremyH
    Participant

    Under Gott we’ve historically followed up a big win with a loss. So if that were to be avoided on Wednesday, its not a stretch to say the program is more clearly moving in the right direction. Of course, there are loads of roads games left in the season for our relatively inexperienced group (75% of next 12 games?). Just need to stay fearless.

    #69336
    wufpup76
    Keymaster

    Clemson is at Virginia tonight.

    I wonder if they will break 60 combined points …

    #69338
    13OT
    Participant

    I don’t see how we can be ahead of Notre Dame at this point. They beat Purdue by over 30 and we lost an ugly one to the Boilers. Notre Dame, 15-2, also won in Chapel Hill. State has yet to win away from home and will need more than just a Duke win at home to overcome the ugly losses to Wofford and Cincinnati, especially if Duke turns out to be overrated.

    We’re playing really well now, and I like our chances tomorrow night, but until we start winning away from home, we’re a bubble team. And speaking of bubbles, put Georgia Tech in the “out” column. That program is going nowhere under Gregory.

    #69344
    JohnGalt78
    Participant

    Be careful Jeremy, I expressed a similar opinion a while back and was asked to prove it with data or shut the hell up. My comments were along the lines of not handling success well. Anyway, I still have that opinion despite not having our historical won/loss data at the forefront of my mind. Nonetheless, I agree with you. And I’m actually glad it’s the Cheats coming to town tomorrow and not Va Tech. I don’t think it will matter that we just flushed dook. We will not lay an egg tomorrow. Gott’s energy won’t be called upon to motivate our guys. He will simply need to out coach the king of the cheaters, good o’ Roy Cheatin Williams. GO PACK!!!!!!!!!!

    #69352
    Daniel_Simpson_Day
    Participant

    Are let down losses exclusively NCSU’s MO? I think it is safe to say let down losses following a big win (i.e. an unranked team beating a top 10 team) are fairly common for every coach/program that is not considered one of the elite. I remember a loss @ Maryland after a big win against Duke and a loss @ UVA after a big win over UNC; hindsight being what it is I wouldn’t consider those WTF losses. I agree with JG, you don’t need a great motivator to get you ready for your biggest rival. As JH said, a validation win over UNC will be another positive step in the program’s evolution.

    #69357
    VaWolf82
    Keymaster

    And my prediction is not even gonna come close hahaha.

    Note that I remembered who had made the prediction and was trying to protect the identity of the “not so innocent”. While I’m in full disclosure mode…I was pretty sure what would happen in the early part of the ACC schedule, but haven’t ever looked at what happens over the course of the entire conference schedule. Hopefully, it will be interesting to watch.

    #69360
    wufpup76
    Keymaster

    ^Hahaha I’m a sucker for betting the long shots

    #69372
    StateFans
    Keymaster

    Great work, as always from VaWolf!

    Add to it this view of the entire conference and I think there is a lot of great information in this thread.

    #4B North Carolina State Wolfpack (12-5, 3-1) RPI: 32 SOS: 7

    The battle for #4 will occur on Wednesday night when NC St. hosts the arch-rival Tar Heels. UNC’s SOS is 6th. So they are neck and neck in terms of that metric. UNC has one less loss. Both sported signature wins last weekend with NC St. handily defeating Duke, and UNC pulling out the win vs Louisville. A hat tip to our own Mike McDaniel who predicted the NC State upset over the Blue Devils.

    NC State made the NCAA tournament via the new-fangled play-in system where extra 10 seeds are added to the at-large pool. It took them 22 wins. Coach Mark Gottfried has them well on their way to a similar campaign assuming there are no health concerns. It is a veteran led team with starting junior PG Trevor Lacey on his way to earning all-league honors (I have him pegged for 2nd team right now), and senior Ralston Turner offering steady perimeter production as well. Sophomore guard Anthony Barber is rounding into a nice 3rd option, and allows Lacey to play off the ball some and focus on scoring.

    On the inside, the ‘Pack has a rotation of guys earning solid minutes, but none they rely on too heavily. Sophomore Beejay Anya is averaging an incredible 3.1 blocks per game in just under 20 minutes per contest. His having lost some 65 pounds in the offseason has increased his mobility and allowed him to play for longer stretches. If he can develop some hands to go with the position his posterior earns him on the block, he could develop into a double digit scorer at some point, even if it isn’t this year.

    NC State has a very good chance of getting to the turn at 6-3 in the league. The second half of the league schedule also looks like it could be converted into a 6-3 record. At 12-6, the Wolfpack would be shoo-ins for a top five seed. They have just one questionable loss (Wofford); the other losses were to West Virginia, Cincinnati, UVA, and @ Purdue. They now have their signature win, having gotten scorching hot this past Sunday vs Duke. A couple more of those head-to-head wins against top tier ACC squads like Notre Dame, UNC, Louisville, or Syracuse, and they could be looking at a bye in the ACC tournament.

    This Week: North Carolina (Weds) , @Florida St (Sat)

    Mobility: They could shoot all the way up into the #2 spot if they win both games and Louisville beats Duke. This is a team that seems to know what it can and cannot do, and plays within those constraints. Credit the coaching staff and the heady leadership of Trevor Lacey for the pack staying within themselves.

    #69373
    StateFans
    Keymaster

    #4A North Carolina Tar Heels (12-4, 2-1) RPI: 14 SOS: 6

    Marcus Paige is a gamer. Ever since PJ Hairston was dismissed by Coach Roy Williams last year for repeated off-court incidents, Paige has come on strong and has been responsible for several W’s the Heels earned in the closing moments. At this point, I am not sure there is a more proven crunch-time player in the conference. His game winner on Saturday against a Louisville backcourt that is becoming known for it’s on-ball defensive tenacity was just one more line item for the bio. As an undersized junior, his heart is rarely paralleled by his opponents.

    The Tar Heels are ranked 301st in 3-point makes per game. They simply do not shoot it well. They crash the offensive glass though, and now that teams are measuring which of their players miss with the best efficiency, Paige is clearly among the leaders. Simply meaning that he draws a crowd on his forays to the cup, leaving his rebounders without a body on them, so they can convert the putbacks with ease.

    Roy Williams doesn’t hesitate to use his bench either. Every player has utility, whether its simply to foul, or for a given match-up’s sake. On Saturday, Pitino played three of his guys (Jones, Rozier, Harrell) 37 minutes or more; of all the Tar Heels only Paige played 30 minutes or more, and it was exactly 30 minutes. It was eye-opening to watch them bully the Cards, outrebounding them 40-30, and 17-9 on the offensive end.

    The Tar Heels haven’t looked like world-beaters but they don’t look likely to be beaten by many in the world either. If I had to compare them to a Heavyweight boxer, they’d be Ken Norton. Ready to go 15 rounds, hit as hard as anybody in the game, but eventually going to lose some of the judges’ love due to a lack of panache and charisma.

    This Week: @ NC St (Weds), Virginia Tech (Sunday night game of the week! And what a game it’ll be as UNC will sport four guys at 6’9? or taller to VT’s one lone freshman Satchel Pierce, if Joey Van Zegeren remains suspended. Has a team ever been held to single digit rebounds before?)

    Mobility: With a pair of wins, they will at least lock down this four spot by themselves for the week. Cracking the top three will be difficult this year.

    #69374
    StateFans
    Keymaster

    SI’s Bubble Analysis has us as “in the mix” in this article. I’m guessing they are trying to project how things will be and not putting us as “lock” yet. That’s fine. But, if the article were to be written from the perspective of “if the tournament started today” then we would definitely be a lock.

    North Carolina State (12-5, RPI: 32, SOS: 7) — The Wolfpack dealt Duke its first loss of the season, and scored themselves a major differentiating win in the process. Fellow bubble teams are going to be hard pressed to show off as equally impressive a win. N.C. State is now 5-4 against the top 50 and has only one loss — at Purdue — outside the top 100.

    I also think the author meant that we are 5-4 vs the TOP 100, not the top 50. If we had 5 wins vs the Top 50 we would absolutely be a lock.

    #69377
    StateFans
    Keymaster

    In relation to the previous post…we tweeted this a couple of day ago:

    #69386
    Wufpacker
    Participant

    Not necessarily for the NCAAT conversation, but I’m increasingly impressed by Wake. Kinda wishing our December game with them had been the one in W-S.

    #69390
    Lunatic Fringe
    Participant

    13OT

    Simple reason N.C. State is above ND…7th SOS vs 140th SOS (anchored down by a pitiful OOC schedule…as noted above).

    Gott has become an absolute pro with OOC scheduling…

    #69392
    wufpup76
    Keymaster

    ^^^^Jerry Palm of CBS had us as pretty much the last team in the field on his latest bracket. That’s fine, but State’s current resume is more indicative of being solidly on the 10 or 11 lines. A complete lack of road/neutral victories, but a great rpi number backed by a signature win.

    Other current ‘bubble’ teams simply cannot match State’s rpi (yay scheduling) or signature victory. A few can’t match 4 top 100 victories yet.

    It means absolutely nothing at this point, but it is fun to talk about (for me, at least) 🙂

    Agree on Wake, they seem to have improved drastically the past few weeks. Were down big to Syracuse early tonight but have rallied.

    #69393
    Texpack
    Participant

    Vols up by 11 vs pigs with 6:30 to go. This would help us

    #69397
    wufpup76
    Keymaster

    ^Tennessee pulled it off

    #69398
    JeremyH
    Participant

    go Vols!

    #69400
    wufpup76
    Keymaster

    Entertaining game in the Carrier Dome … tough loss for Wake. Missing the front end of 1-and-1’s never helps.

    Duke having getting all they can handle once again tonight vs. Miami

    #69401
    Wufpacker
    Participant

    Okafor got some negative body language right now. DaU by 11.

    #69402
    wufpup76
    Keymaster

    Okafor got some negative body language right now. DaU by 11.

    Who’s the team captain(s)? I know this is always important to K and his teams. I’m guessing Cook has to be one since he’s a senior?

    I’m guessing regardless of the outcome tonight that K puts an enormous amount of pressure on the team captains to whip the freshmen into shape quickly.

    #69404
    JeremyH
    Participant

    I assume we’re pulling for Duke here.

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