BBall: Taking stock of NCAA Tournament positioning

Well…here we go!! As the calendar turns to 2015, Wolfpack fans need to make no mistake about the high level of importance that this week has on NC State’s 2015 basketball fortunes! NC State will find significant opportunity to build an NCAA Tournament worthy resume with TWO home games in the coming five days!

I don’t know about you…but, I find it hard to REALLY follow all of the moving parts of the college basketball landscape until the calendar turns over into conference season. So, despite the fact that we aren’t even half way through the basketball season quite yet, I thought you might be able to use this entry as I did and glean some information to get your mindset in the mode.

The author of this entry is taking a stab at projecting ACC teams in the NCAA Tournament (as if the season started today). The only major whiff I see at this point is the inclusion of Miami at a #10 seed but NC State as a #12. Look at the resumes and tell me how that is remotely an ounce of sense? The only reason for this is early season bias where people propelled Miami too far into their rankings; so, what you are seeing is a reluctance to ‘drop’ them too far too fast. An objective analysis between the two resumes at this point of the season doesn’t leave much room for debate — while both teams have three Top 100 wins, NC State’s ‘bad loss’ was a 2 possession game on the road at a Big Ten school while Miami lost by 28 points at home to Eastern Kentucky. State is some 23 spots AHEAD of Miami in the RPI having played the 53rd toughest schedule in the country vs Miami having played the #111th schedule in the country. How is this even a discussion?

Locks

(77) Miami (9-3) (0-0) Projected Seed 10

Last 10 – (7-3)

Good Wins – * (51) UNC-Charlotte, * (51) UNC-Charlotte, (56) Illinois

Bad Losses – (122) Eastern Kentucky

Notes – That’s the bubble Miami is rapidly approaching. Beating the College of Charleston is must this week. Then there is a big game with Virginia at home that Miami could use to boost their resume.

Bubble But In

(54) NC State (10-3) (1-0) Projected Seed 12

Last 10 – (7-3)

Good Wins – * (40) Boise St., (57) Richmond, (91) Tennessee

Bad Losses – (146) Purdue

Notes – NC State beat Louisiana Tech this week, so I’m sliding them into the Big Dance this week. NC State has a couple of huge home games this week. Cincinnati and Pittsburgh come to Raleigh. The Wolfpack really need to win both.

Bubble But Out

(41) Georgia Tech (8-3) (0-0)

Last 10 – (7-3)

Good Wins – *(53) Rhode Island, * (28) Georgia

Bad Losses – * (159) USC-Upstate

Notes – I would have left Georgia Tech in, if they could have won at Dayton. Georgia Tech is in decent position at the moment, but they don’t have the look or feel of an NCAA tournament team. They have given themselves a chance though. This week is critical. They need at least a split UNC-Charlotte and Notre Dame. Either would be a quality win.

(79) Pittsburgh (9-3) (0-0)

Last 10 – (7-3)

Good Wins – None

Bad Losses – (143) Hawaii, (110) Indiana

Notes – Pittsburgh needs some quality wins badly… Holy Cross was a decent win, but that’s not enough. Florida Gulf Coast, and a bubblicious road game with NC State are this week.

(82) Syracuse (7-4) (0-0)

Last 10 – (6-4)

Good Wins – None

Bad Losses – (154) Michigan

Notes – Syracuse has the same problem as Pittsburgh… ZERO quality wins. Syracuse needs to go 3-0 this week against Long Beach State, Cornell, and Virginia Tech. They have no margin for error.

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14-15 Basketball

Home Forums BBall: Taking stock of NCAA Tournament positioning

Viewing 21 posts - 1 through 21 (of 21 total)
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  • #67248
    StateFans
    Keymaster

    Well…here we go!! As the calendar turns to 2015, Wolfpack fans need to make no mistake about the high level of importance that this week has on NC S
    [See the full post at: BBall: Taking stock of NCAA Tournament positioning]

    #67258
    Codebrown
    Participant

    Someone needs to tell this fool that it’s only December. Tournament predictions are worth as much as the oil change coupons you get for losing the Quick Lane Bowl.

    #67262
    PapaJohn
    Participant

    Great stuff, thanks! Here we go! Basketball pretty much twice a week for the next couple of months. I’d feel a lot more comfortable if we had one more win right now, but we’ll just have to make it up.

    GO PACK!

    #67267
    StateFans
    Keymaster

    Codebrown, to be fair, the author is not making ‘predictions’. The author is merely projecting the tournament if it were to start today. I don’t have a problem with that.

    #67270
    Texpack
    Participant

    I’m really not sure this is an NCAA worthy squad. We could end up being one, but I would put us at 40/60 in/out as a prediction. If we don’t beat Cincy we have to really over achieve in the conference to get in. I’ve been hyping the bigs for a little over a year and they keep laying eggs on the offensive end. I still think that group can be a superior group for us, but they’re taking a lot longer to develop than I thought they would.

    #67273
    Wulfpack
    Participant

    Eye test says we aren’t a tourney team. That can easily change but they are going to have to do it on the floor. Going to have to knock off a top team or two to get a serious look.

    #67276
    13OT
    Participant

    I think the most important thing State can do to get in the Dance is to achieve at least a .500 ACC record. Six games vs Duke, UNC and UVA plus Louisville and Syracuse will be difficult. But this tough schedule will also give the Pack plenty of chances to get to or above .500 in the league.

    As far as Syracuse is concerned, it’s unlikely CBS and the NCAA would exclude the Orange if they were a bubble team. The importance of star power for tv was pretty clear to me in Ohio State’s selection as the last one in on football selection Sunday.

    #67277
    redisgood
    Participant

    Our ACC schedule is brutal. We play most of the bottom feeders only once, and they are away games. I’m thinking .500 will be a good achievement, but maybe not enough to make the tournament.

    #67278
    wufpup76
    Keymaster

    As it stands today, I wouldn’t have been surprised by any of the following:

    #11 or #12 seed
    Last 4 In
    First 4 Out
    Or just plain ol’ ‘Out’

    Thankfully ‘we’ (as in the staff & program) play the numbers game really, really well – so any number of wins will typically have us close to ‘bubblicious’. Also thankfully, we have plenty of opportunities to garner some solid wins ahead – including numerous chances at ‘signature’ victories (Duke, Louisville, Virginia).

    Currently, this team has ‘bubble’ written all over it – but it is still way too early for labels (positively or negatively). Plenty of basketball and opportunities lie ahead.

    As for Miami – agree on the objective analysis. If you want to give them a 10 seed fine, but similar (or better resumes) should be around that seed line as well. There may be some confirmation bias taking root with this seeding. Their win @ Florida is not listed as a ‘good win’, but theoretically is the main reason they are seeded this highly. Miami’s win @ UF is also the primary reason they were ranked – UF was Top 10 at the time. Obviously UF has proven not to be a Top 10 or really a Top 25 team to this point in the season.

    One thing I give the selection process and selection committee a ton of credit for is that you typically do not see any such confirmation bias in the selections. Seeding can be called in to question at times, but generally raw data and results rule the day for the selection process. That gets my respect. Teams are selected and seeded on merit, not laundry.

    There are of course other factors for selection, such as how you finish and if it’s statistically close then ‘eye test’ can come into play – but the factors for selection are always the same: wins, who the wins were against, where the wins took place, schedule strength (this cannot be undervalued), cpu numbers, bad losses, good/bad finish.

    That’s the beauty of Gottfried’s scheduling philosophy – build your team for March and play the numbers game to give yourself every opportunity to ‘just get in’. Once you’re in, anything can happen. Of course, we don’t want to perpetually be on the bubble – but if you play a good schedule and win enough then you won’t be. And, even if you lose then you can still work your way back in with some wins – like State’s run late last season that propelled them into the field. Still plenty of time left this season for this thing to go any which way.

    Thanks for the discussion point. I was going to put up a ‘week in review / look ahead’ for State + the conference, but I think I’ll shift that to tomorrow so as not to push down this thread (or if VaWolf or anyone puts up an RPI / OOC review thread I’ll wait till next week 🙂 ).

    #67279
    VaWolf82
    Keymaster

    or if VaWolf or anyone puts up an RPI / OOC review thread

    Waiting on UC game to complete the preseason.

    #67280
    Mike
    Participant

    I have a silly question – who decided for the Cincy game to be at 4:00 on Tuesday, a normal “work day”? Students are gone. People who work are actually working Tuesday before New Years break. RBC will be lucky to have family and close friends there and a quiet crowd. If it were New Year’s Eve, I would get a 4 start. New Year’s day I would get a 4 start.

    I was wanting to go and was going to buy tickets but not at 4.

    #67281
    wufpup76
    Keymaster

    or if VaWolf or anyone puts up an RPI / OOC review thread

    Waiting on UC game to complete the preseason.

    Cool – I thought so. Look forward to it.

    Thanks for letting me know. I’ll just put up a game thread tomorrow.

    #67282
    PackFamily
    Participant

    That’s the beauty of Gottfried’s scheduling philosophy – build your team for March and play the numbers game to give yourself every opportunity to ‘just get in’.

    So… Herb’s philosophy… JK, them’s fightin’ words around here.

    I want to stick with MG for the long haul as i believe he is our best shot to get us to a championship. However, i am concerned how much recruiting has dropped off since Lowe left. MG can definitely coach a whole lot better, but unless these current kids really blossom over the next 2 years (which i think they can), we are looking at a Herb -like Tourney team. That means we make it but get bounced in the round of 64 or maybe 32.

    #67284
    wufpup76
    Keymaster

    So… Herb’s philosophy… JK, them’s fightin’ words around here.

    Haha I flirted with going there but held off.

    #67290
    Wufpacker
    Participant

    I have a silly question – who decided for the Cincy game to be at 4:00 on Tuesday, a normal “work day”? Students are gone. People who work are actually working Tuesday before New Years break. RBC will be lucky to have family and close friends there and a quiet crowd. If it were New Year’s Eve, I would get a 4 start. New Year’s day I would get a 4 start.

    I was wondering the same thing. There must be a reason, but damned if I’ve figured it out yet. Didn’t want to go head to head with the Belk Bowl in case we landed there???

    #67292
    wufpup76
    Keymaster

    ^Yeah, there were some games in the middle of the day today as well (like Texas-Rice and BC-UMass Lowell) … must be a “it’s holiday season” deal with respect to scheduling.

    #67293
    lawful
    Participant

    Somebody please provide some incite to bball recruiting for next season. We have landed exactly no one, so far. I know who the targets are but I have no idea where we stand. Write an article…start a blog. Somebody talk.

    #67301
    1.21 Jigawatts
    Keymaster

    Taking a look at the Probability of winning this week is at least encouraging from a percentage standpoint: vs. Cincinnati 66%, vs. Pitt 67%. Looking at the probability to win before the game starts and the results we have the following over the last 5 years plus the current one. (KenPom: + = >50% probability to win before the game, – = <50%)

    2015
    + 10-1 [0.909] (Wofford)
    – 0-2 [0.000]
    Total (-1+0) = -1

    2014
    + 14-3 [0.824] (NCCU, Missouri, Miami)
    – 8-11 [0.421] (Tennessee, Notre Dame, FSU, Miami, Pitt, Miami, Syracuse, Xavier)
    Total (-3+8) = +5

    2013
    + 22-4 [0.846] (Oklahoma State, Wake Forest, FSU, Temple)
    – 2-7 [0.222] (Duke, UVA)
    Total (-4+2) = -2

    2012
    + 18-2 [0.900] (Georgia Tech, FSU)
    – 6-11 [0.353] (Texas, St. Bonaventure, Miami, VT, UVA, Georgetown)
    Total (-2+6) = +4

    2011
    + 13-0 [1.000]
    – 2-16 [0.111] (George Mason, Clemson)
    Total (0+2) = +2

    2010
    + 13-5 [0.722] (Northwestern, Florida, UVA, UNC, VT)
    – 7-11 [0.389] (Marquette, FSU, Duke, Miami, Clemson, FSU, South Florida)
    Total (-5+7) = +2

    With Back to Back to Back games against @UVA, Duke, and UNC following the Pitt game it’s critical for State to win both games this week.

    #67303
    VaWolf82
    Keymaster

    Somebody please provide some incite to bball recruiting for next season. We have landed exactly no one, so far. I know who the targets are but I have no idea where we stand. Write an article…start a blog. Somebody talk.

    If there was something to say, wouldn’t the sites that specialize in recruiting already have the info up?

    #67304
    wufpup76
    Keymaster

    Cool post, Jiga

    #67308
    Alpha Wolf
    Keymaster

    At this point of the season, prognosticating NC State’s chances of making the NCAA Tournament are best done with a Magic 8-Ball:

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