NC State’s talent deficiency notable in preseason projections

TOB

If you didn’t realize it before, then last season proved to the world that Debbie Yow pushed Tom O’Brien out of his office in the Murphy Center (not literally) because of piss poor recruiting that manifested into a thin roster with limited talent. Late last year, our own WV Wolf penned a short but insightful piece (available here) that quickly addressed this topic that would be of value for you to read.

As we head into the next couple of seasons when O’Brien’s recruiting classes will be taking hold, we are starting to see more evidence of the rough condition our program was in upon his departure. For example, take a look at this list of the “Top 15 Players in the Atlantic Coast Conference for 2014″. In this exercise 41 different ACC players received at least one vote as “Top 15″ submitted by an expert panel from around the conference. The magazine observers the…

…poll reinforces just how loaded Florida State’s roster is for 2014. Jameis Winston is a clear No. 1 in the voting and five of the top 10 also represent the Seminoles.

* The Seminoles had 14 players receive votes in this experts poll.

* Four different Coastal teams had a player ranked in the top 10: Duke, Pittsburgh, Miami and Virginia Tech.

* There’s a clear drop in quarterback play for the ACC after Jameis Winston. Duke’s Anthony Boone recorded only 11 points, while North Carolina’s Marquise Williams received only three points.

* Four of the top 11 players were wide receivers: Rashad Greene, Jamison Crowder, Tyler Boyd and DeVante Parker.

Well, I see a few more observations that are both disturbing and illustrative of the program that O’Brien left behind to Dave Doeren —

* The ONLY NC State player to make the TOP 41 is Jacoby Brissett who received only one vote that was for a ranking somewhere between #11 and #15. Brissett completed 41 of 74 passes for 455 yards and three touchdowns as a Florida Gator but has yet to play a single down of football in the ACC. The junior was not recruited by Tom O’Brien and announced his transfer to west Raleigh after Dave Doeren took over in west Raleigh.

If you take the same approach to analyzing any preseason work on the ACC you will come to a similar observation — State just doesn’t have that many talented bodies in the upper classes. Take a look at FOUR “All-ACC” squads projected by Phil Steele below and you will see only ONE non-specialist from NC State on the top three teams – defensive tackle, Thomas Teal. Ooops! Even that is not good news for NC State as Teal has been slotted as second string on the most recent depth chart behind freshman, BJ Hill. (Maybe this means that Hill is so good that he can compete for All-ACC honors? If so, I guess that just further supports the obvious take-away that Dave Doeren is working hard to bring a different type of talent into the Wolfpack program than currently exists.

Phil Steele's 2014 Pre-season All-ACC Team

We are not going to beat this dead horse of talent deficiency throughout the season, but I think it is important to understand where things currently stand.

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Home Forums NC State’s talent deficiency notable in preseason projections

This topic contains 21 replies, has 17 voices, and was last updated by  Wufpacker 2 weeks, 5 days ago.

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  • #54451

    StateFans
    Keymaster

    If you didn’t realize it before, then last season proved to the world that Debbie Yow pushed Tom O’Brien out of his office in the Murphy Center (not l
    [See the full post at: NC State's talent deficiency notable in preseason projections]

    #54455

    BJD95
    Keymaster

    A thousand times THIS. People who acted like we should have serious questions about Doeren based on last year, or that he should be on the hot seat without a bowl this year…are just plain nuts or blind, IMHO.

    Forget about going into a gun fight with a knife – poor DD was given a spork. With a prong or two missing.

    So, even if you question the intensity of the ACC as a gun fight (fair enough)…a spork won’t get you very far against ANY schedule.

    #54456

    Texpack
    Participant

    The fact that TOB wasn’t able to do any better than he did with two out of the best three or four QB’s in the history of the school told me a lot about how sad the surrounding talent was. Years three and four will be when we can start to judge how effective DD has been in recruiting and how good a coach he is.

    #54460

    pakfanistan
    Participant

    Agree with both of the above. Anybody who watched the Tennessee and South Carolina games could see there was no comparison in terms of talent and athleticism.

    "I want my ten dollars!" -Abraham Lincoln
    #54466

    PackFamily
    Participant

    I was a supporter and a realistic critic of TOB (the RW situation and losing to CU and UMD when it mattered really turned me). Yes the cupboard was bare, and that was his fault, but the cupboard was also bare when he got here (we had these same discussion board conversations when CTC was fired). The game clearly passed him by and the lack of winning at a high level made recruits wary of him. Let him RIP.

    We have a winner in CDD. If he can’t get it done for us, i will weep for our future.

    #54469

    travelwolf
    Participant

    I’d love to agree with you, but when I looked at our commit rankings on PackPride vs. other middle-of-the-road programs such as UVA, Maryland, TOB recruited about as well as those other programs. On the other hand, UNC outrecruited TOB by a wide margin. That’s what ticks us off – that we creamed UNC almost every year, yet they recruited better than us.

    Currently, IMHO, we can only compare ourselves to other middle-of-the-road programs. The way we will get out of the middle will be to have great seasons – and then capitalize on the great seasons by recruiting well. TOB had good seasons, but didn’t capitalize on them on the recruiting trail.

    May I suggest that someone do a comparison of commit star power by ACC school. Not a difficult thing to do.

    #54474

    Greywolf
    Participant

    These kinds of preseason All-ACC teams are amusing.
    * I had to look all the way to the 4th team offense to find Clemson players and then only 2. Anybody think Clemson is that bad offensively?
    * FSU has only 8 players listed spread over the 4 Defense teams. (That’s 2 per team. I don’t believe it. Wait, Yes I do. I forgot who the “expert” is who made this list up.

    Don’t know if DD can recruit or coach but it looks like he can hire coaches who can do both. Please coach, don’t let S&C Coach, Jason Veltkampt, get away.

    We, State, have a young team but that doesn’t necessarily make it a team without talent and athleticism. *nc’s Ryan Switzer is the projected No. 1 PR but was he even mentioned as a PR last year.

    I’m like the little boy who was given a room full of horse manure for Christmas. He started shoveling away while mumbling to himself, “With this much horse manure there’s got to be a pony in here somewhere. Maybe we can find a few ponies in all that HS that TOB left here.

    This isn’t the same team that was stumbling around last year. I’m assuming the OL has been coached up. If we can keep Crisp healthy, our whole OL picture will be vastly improved. Tony Adams has good size and quick feet even though he is only freshman. Both guards are capable of pulling. The backs like that. We still are not as deep as I know DD would like us to be but we are getting there. The work VeltKampt and his crew are doing is transforming bodies. The hard work our young men are doing in the weight room is inspirational.

    Enough positive thinking… maybe.

    #54483

    choppack1
    Participant

    I am excited about the potential of both lines.

    As for last year, I read a quote that summed it up perfectly “dd played a $–$ hand $—$ly”…

    As for tob – if you couldn’t see this coming you were blind. He did exactly what I thought he’d do. If we had him and his staff a few years earlier it would have worked out pretty well…but when you sign a bunnch of geriatrics they generally don’t recruit well even if they are good football coaches.

    #54485

    13OT
    Participant

    Texpack: “Years three and four will be when we can start to judge how effective DD has been in recruiting and how good a coach he is.”

    If the Wolfpack has another year like the last one, I personally won’t need two more years to evaluate how BAD a coach DD is. For me, it wasn’t just going oh-fer the ACC last season, but it was the way we did it. We got the hell beat out of us in most every aspect of the nine games we lost, and in a tenth one we were thoroughly outplayed by Richmond on our home turf, a game we didn’t deserve to win.

    You guys pay a lot more attention to the little things than I do- which recruits we might get, how good this player is at this particular position, how many yards we give up in the 3rd quarter, yadda yadda yadda. But I do pay attention to one thing that has changed at NCSU, and that’s a total lack of big-game talent, or big-play people, on the field. And I don’t see anyone in sight, either.

    You guys who keep bashing TOB sound like the Obama crowd who continues to bash GW Bush. Eventually, the guy in charge, even if he’s OUR coach, will have to be held accountable.

    The excitement is gone for me because after nearly 20 years of season ticket misery, I now see a second consecutive NCSU football team that doesn’t look like it could spring a big play on Richmond County High School. Whatever happened to the big-play players we used to have? All we seem to have this season is a transfer QB who left Gainesville on less than a successful note, and now he’s become our “hope”?

    Lord help us.

    #54486

    Mike
    Participant

    13OT, I think your post signifies the problems. You mention how bad DD is, but then you mention we have no talent. That was the whole point of this thread, that TOB left the cupboard completely bare. The kids DD is bringing in are the ones who can hopefully spring the big plays.

    #54487

    bill.onthebeach
    Participant

    I’m like the little boy who was given a room full of horse manure for Christmas. He started shoveling away while mumbling to himself, “With this much horse manure there’s got to be a pony in here somewhere. Maybe we can find a few ponies in all that HS….

    I’m pasting this to the front of my refrigerator…
    Don’t ask why…

    Pop!

    -- bill.onthebeach
    #54488

    Wufpacker
    Keymaster

    Sometimes I want to scratch my own eyes out.

    #54490

    BJD95
    Keymaster

    I don’t understand how anyone could have missed the point of the Richmond game.

    It wasn’t that they had a great scheme, or that the Pack was going through the motions – Richmond was our athletic equal. And that was only after they lost their best two players (WR and LT, no less). At full strength…they were MORE talented than State.

    You could see it coming Glennon’s last year, when he made plays despite his supporting cast. And that was a senior-laden squad. As I noted at the time, imagine the same team, but with much less depth and no NFL-caliber (or even college starter-caliber, it turned out) QB. That’s exactly what happened. That’s why DY was proactive with TOB.

    #54491

    BJD95
    Keymaster

    I mean, in the season opener (Tennessee, who would go 1-7 in the SEC) ran circles around us. It was like we were playing in molasses. Then in the bowl, VANDY (yes, they had some success under Franklin, but because he maximized their potential, watching them against the powers of the league it was clear they didn’t have SEC speed) ran circles around us, and treated our OL like wet tissue paper.

    #54492

    Wulfpack
    Participant

    Eventually, the guy in charge, even if he’s OUR coach, will have to be held accountable.

    Yes, he will. But you said it – eventually. Considering the state of the program when DD came in, I for one don’t think we are quite there yet. I certainly don’t expect much this season. I do expect to see improved play across the board. That may or may not translate in the win/loss record.

    #54493

    Fastback68
    Participant

    LMFAO – Thanks Greywolf Here’s to that pony growing into Secretariat.

    #54500

    DFMo
    Participant

    Gentlemen, set your expectations. After last year, with the inexperienced youth, with that non conf schedule, DD and DY are setting up to try to get to 6-6 for 25 extra practice and ANY bowl game. That means finding 2 ACC wins if you sweep the non conf (not a given). Just consider it another reality TV show and see how it plays out.

    #54504

    Greywolf
    Participant

    What’s probable and what’s possible are two different animals. We predict what’s probable by looking in the rearview mirror. People in the business of predicting the probable can’t be faulted for predicting 4-8 or 5-7 with 6-6 being a “good” season.

    Looking a little deeper is required for seeing what’s possible. Nine early enrollees came in January to get a jump on the season. True freshman are stepping up and winning starting jobs. Others who aren’t starting are being counted on as backups. From what I understand most of the team has taken off season workouts seriously. Weight in the form of muscle is being added — except in those cases where ‘bad weight’ is being replaced by good weight.

    I hear what seems to be a burning desire to rectify the 2013 disaster. Those who didn’t make the necessary sacrifices are paying for it. Some didn’t lose the ‘bad weight’ and some didn’t gain the needed weight. Moving down the depth chart is the price. Fortunately for every failure there are 10 successes. The DL was committed to gaining 15 pounds of muscle each. Some gained a lot more. Thank you Jason Veltkampt and your team in the weight room for transforming those fat bodies by putting on muscle and increasing strength. Being bigger, faster, stronger points to our being more competitive and winning more games.

    The OL is more athletic, more mobile and deeper than last year. That alone is enough for getting a sense of what’s possible.

    Our upper classmen and scholarship players are mentoring our freshmen and walk ons, not hazing them. (Sorry, I just HAD to say it.)

    So, I’ve got a choice. Go with the probable and glumly wait around a year or two OR go with the possible and be excited and looking forward to the season. There was the day when I made choices that drug me down. Today I try to make choices that empower me. It empowers me to choose positively.

    This post is entirely too serious. I should have stuck with the horse manure, something I know something about.

    #54507

    44rules
    Participant

    Was at the Tennessee opener. Wound up drinking a lot more beer than I expected too.

    #54510

    redisgood
    Participant

    Jacoby Brissett will be good. Not great, but good – and good is a far cry from abysmal. That alone will pick us up a few extra wins this year.

    I also think Jalan McClendon will eventually turn out to be much better than Brissett.

    #54516

    BJD95
    Keymaster

    Yes, I would be quite surprised if we go 0-for-ACC or lose 10 again. Thanks to non-shit QBing alone.

    Hey, RW is in the news!

    http://kissingsuzykolber.uproxx.com/2014/08/does-russell-wilson-have-an-erection-on-the-cover-of-sports-illustrated.html

    #54518

    Wufpacker
    Keymaster

    ^ Reminds me of the hot tranny.

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