NIT season will result from State’s own bad habits

NCSUbasketball

I think yesterday’s Wolfpack effort against the Miami Hurricanes was hilariously (and sadly accurately) summed up by the @Lee_Folwer Twitter account:

 

In hindsight, yesterday’s home loss to Miami was a microcosm of a set of consistent weaknesses that have plagued the first three years of Mark Gottfried’s tenure in Raleigh. Please note, this isn’t meant to be a critical entry or referendum on Gottfried; this is simply honest and accurate analysis of what we are seeing and have seen on the court. I fully recognize that we have to take the good with the bad in everyone and am not proposing that the bad outweighs the good with Gottfried. I also recognize that the 2013-2014 Wolfpack is very young and the future of the program appears very bright when you couple this squad with the new pieces that will be eligible next season (Lacy, Abu and the Martin twins). However, this basketball program is going to have a problem hitting up against a ceiling that is lower than we all wish if we can’t get some habitual problems extricated from our culture and practices.

The following three deficiencies proved themselves as major factors in yesterday’s embarrassing 15 point home loss to 5-10 Miami and have also consistently lacked over the last three years:

(1) DEFENSE – coming into yesterday’s game Miami had the 347th ranked scoring offenses in the country. Folks, there are only 351 teams who play Division One Basketball. How many times have we (sadly) had to make the observation that “someone is always having record games against us?” Unfortunately, that observation usually has some truth to it, and yesterday’s loss was a perfect example. The N&O shared the following specifics, “The Canes bested their season average (60.9) by 25 points. They scored 48 in the second half alone, which is more than they had in a home loss (67-46) to Duke on Jan. 22. Led by Brown and freshman guard Manu Lecomte (15 points), the Canes shot a blistering 68.2 percent in the second half and 58.7 for the game. They came in last in the ACC and 321st in the country in FG percentage (40.9).”

(2) MENTAL toughness and focus – Go figure, a let down after a fantastic effort? Have we seen that movie in the last three years? Heck have seen that movie in the last two WEEKS with Syracuse followed by Clemson? How about a win at Notre Dame followed by a 30+ loss AT HOME to Virginia? I recognize that this is a young team…but, yesterday’s game was AT HOME.

(3) Late game COLLAPSES – You probably could put this in the bucket of ‘mental toughness and focus’, but the particularly painful way that NC State lets leads slip away and folds at the end of games deserves its own category. Whether it is poor free throw shooting in the clutch, untimely turnovers, inappropriate use of timeouts or other errors in execution (some, admittedly, led by having to unfairly overcome poor officiating) , this trend couldn’t be more painful; and in many cases more controllable. How many times would NC State have won close games if someone had just hit one more free throw? In just the last three months losses to North Carolina Central, Missouri, at Wake Forest, at Syracuse and vs UNC-CH were literally pissed away in an instant with inexplicable collapses. Heck, that doesn’t even include the 17(?) point lead we held on Pittsburgh to only be outscored by almost THIRTY POINTS in just about thirty minutes of play AT HOME.

 

Today is actually a weird day for Coach Gottfried and for NC State fans. When you think about it – today literally marks the very first day since Gottfried was announced as head coach at NC State that the Wolfpack didn’t have a legitimate chance of participating in the next NCAA Tournament with performance that is/was realistically within our reach. To reach the Big Dance in 2014 it looks like the Pack will need win at Pitt and at Boston College and then probably win three games in the ACC Tournament (depending on how other bubble team’s perform). One thing is for sure, without better defense, mental toughness and execution late in games we will be having more days like this in the future.

Looking for a little more?  Please click here and take a spin in our message forums that are built and moderated in a way to avoid the usual trolling and arguing and immaturity that comes with many/most message boards on the internet. Please remember, the most value is built in communities like these when readers JUST LIKE YOU make the decision to CONTRIBUTE rather than just glance around. Please feel free to take the extra minute or two and share a little with us to help our community improve! Thanks!

About StateFans

'StateFansNation' is the shared profile used by any/all of the dozen or so authors that contribute to the blog. You may not always agree with us, but you will have little doubt about where we stand on most issues. Please follow us on Twitter and FaceBook

13-14 Basketball Mark Gottfried

Home Forums NIT season will result from State’s own bad habits

This topic contains 79 replies, has 32 voices, and was last updated by  bill.onthebeach 8 months, 4 weeks ago.

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 80 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #43767

    StateFans
    Keymaster

    I think yesterday’s Wolfpack effort against the Miami Hurricanes was hilariously (and sadly accurately) summed up by the @Lee_Folwer Twitter account:
    [See the full post at: NIT season will result from State’s own bad habits]

    #43768

    pakfanistan
    Participant

    One thing I’ll say, to my untrained eye, it looks like the team is playing hard. That in itself is an improvement, even if it’s not reflected in the schedule.

    "'Tis better to have posted and had it deleted, than never to have posted at all" - Alfred, Lord Tennyson
    #43769

    StateFans
    Keymaster

    I think what you are saying is that relative to last year’s team it appears these guys are trying harder.

    But, at the end of the day, it is hard to say that a team that has been beaten by more than 30 points on multiple occasions but can take some of the best teams in the country to the final second is consistently playing hard.

    It’s hard to say they are really playing hard when defense is nothing more than effort and hustle and focus.

    #43772

    pakfanistan
    Participant

    I think what you are saying is that relative to last year’s team it appears these guys are trying harder.

    But, at the end of the day, it is hard to say that a team that has been beaten by more than 30 points on multiple occasions but can take some of the best teams in the country to the final second is ‘playing hard’.

    It’s hard to say they are really playing hard when defense is nothing more than effort and hustle and focus.

    I get that, but I see a lot of mistakes. I see guys get lost in defensive rotations on the regular. I see guys dribbling the ball of their feet. I see guys who consistently don’t box out. I see guys who don’t pass in front of their target, and guys who don’t come to meet passes, resulting in lots of turnovers on the perimeter and easy layups.

    I think the weakness and inability to finish out games is a symptom of a lot of little errors piling up.

    There’s one guarantee, if we don’t shoot a high percentage relative to our opponents, we’re not winning, because we don’t really get second chances, take away second chances, and we don’t turn people over.

    "'Tis better to have posted and had it deleted, than never to have posted at all" - Alfred, Lord Tennyson
    #43773

    StateFans
    Keymaster

    Those are excellent points. I do not disagree at all with your points regarding the level of our weaknesses on basic basketball fundamentals. Last year these deficiencies were chalked up to laziness from some questionable character guys. This year it is going to be youth. I certainly hope that we SOON get to a point where we have fundamentally sound players and this isn’t an issue. (I feel like recruiting guys like Abu & the Martin twins is a step forward on that front).

    #43786

    VaWolf82
    Keymaster

    You don’t just wake up one morning and suddenly find high IQ BB players on your team. Sound basketball players are created, not just discovered. Even solid high school players have a lot more to learn after they get to the ACC.

    #43788

    packalum44
    Participant

    Gottfried has really exposed himself this year. He can’t hide behind talented upperclassmen and NCAA dance invitations. We all know Gott underperformed last year. It also became apparent that Gott’s first-year team was a legitimate NCAA team….dozens of coaches would have taken them dancing. It is hard to fathom how bad Lowe was…he anchored our expectations.

    To be fair, Gott has not been helped by officiating these past years. My sympathy diminishes when we lose to bad teams and play down to competition. I told a UNC alum at work that the loss likely kept us out of the tournament….who am I kidding? Look like a jackaxx saying that bogus stuff.

    Shaka Smart is doing great. Tony B. is terrific. Jim L. doesn’t need 5 stars to win the ACC. Wichita Shockers have pooh on their pinky every time they play.

    Gott’s snake oil is becoming harder to sell to recruits…2015 pipeline looks dry. Recruiting bunch of CA kids…different actor same Groundhog day.

    #43789

    choppack1
    Participant

    What we have consistently seen from gott’s teams is poor foul shooting, poor defensive rebounding and a lack of defensive fundamentals.

    The good news is that typically his teams are effective offensively and he is a good recruiter. As a result, we can play with most teams.

    The jury is still out. He had some 12-4 years in the sec @ Alabama, but aside from a final 8, had pretty pedestrian NCAA tournament appearances.

    My theory is that he is not a big details guy. I have zero evidence to support this statement other than what I see on the court. The poor foul shooting, the poor fundamentals on d and lack of boxing out all scream that his teams don’t do the little things that separate good from great…

    We will see. The last 2 years don’t give me the warm and fuzzies. We lose the leading scorer who is also our best defender in a likelihood.

    #43791

    Wulfpack
    Participant

    Gott and at least one Pack player admitted our effort, especially on D, was subpar yesterday. He basically said that can’t happen. Ok, agreed. But why does it keep happening? In the end, the sword is yours.

    I get that it is tough to bounce back after demoralizing losses – speaking to the Clemson and Miami losses. But… Why is it that so many other teams seem so much tougher mentally than us? Other programs, some with little or no history or tradition at all, find a way.

    Gott must produce next year. This is now two years in a row that he hasn’t.

    #43792

    DrWuffette1day
    Participant

    Ya’ll are rough. Trying to change the culture of suctitude left by the Lowest. I mean here we are finally competitive. Coach puts us in a position to win most games and has pulled many games out of the hat.

    Can you imagine trying to deal with Leslie, Wood and Brown? I thought he did the best anybody could have done. Wood refused to play defense. Leslie was a headcase and Brown (my favo) never stepped up to provide leadership. In case you forgot, Howell was the unsung hero and he IMPROVED. I really don’t think the other guys improved on any side of the ball, except Wood with the shooting. But he cost us more points than he gave us on many nights.

    Lowe had us last to next to last in the conference almost every year. BC even blew us away. We knew that we were going to win no CLOSE games because Lowe would never put us in position to win. That’s the difference between Gott and Lowe.

    Then Purvis…..not sure about that one but I’m thinking he was influenced by the three who did nothing. Either way, if he’s not a team player- bye and good riddance.

    Gott has done a heck of a job and brought us some coaching clout. I agree defense needs to improve. However if your team is in the game and given a chance to win….that’s all a team and fan can ask from a coach. We have played good enough to win @ 6 games which were taken away from us by circumstances beyond out team’s control.

    WTH about naming other coaches recruited….what a joke. After dealing with Lowe. We’ll see over the next couple of years how the program is developing and where it is. Right now, it looks 300X better than Lowe left us. He left us an absolute disaster.

    #43793

    DrWuffette1day
    Participant

    Gott deserves a lot of credit for lifting our program the way he has.

    Comparisons to his SEC record in the future will be relevant. He needs his own kids and to get Lowe’s OUT. Disappointed in Vandy this year. Just doesn’t have a winner’s mentality. Still want him to do well and have always like the big guy but overall not sure how much he helps the program. He’s seems to be a blue chip, bench guy.

    #43794

    archdalepack
    Participant

    Captain Obvious here, remember young team with some talent. Emotion and “big game” atmosphere have elevated their level of play. At the same time, it has created inconsistency. If they can hold together for one more year, then expectations and results should be much higher. With the exception of a couple of games,can not fault strategy and effort.

    With this type of team, little angry going into ACC tournament could make them fun to watch. Yes I have stepped back from the ledge, “will endeavor to persevere”.

    #43796

    Wulfpack
    Participant

    As I have stated before, Lowe is not the barometer. I will be nice and just say he didn’t get it done. I could be much harsher and truthful at the same time. So any discussion about a coach at State should not reference Lowe. This is now Gott’s program. This is what we have in year 3, and some of us don’t really see how it gets that much better in year 4 when we in all probability lose our best player.

    When I watch FSU cut down the nets. Then Miami. And now UVA, I begin to wonder. It is possible. It is very possible. I’m not right now saying Gott is NOT the guy to get us there, but if it doesn’t happen next year, I think we may see someone else in charge. As most here know, Yow doesn’t mess around. Especially not with basketball. We should be better. No question.

    #43797

    vtpackfan
    Participant

    Would like to see Bobby Lutz move on.

    He is somehow worshipped by many though he collects a HUGE salary as an assistant to do only scouting work to set up the defenses.

    Thats his job and Gott has been extremely loyal (that and many donors like Lutz more than Gott).

    Is it O.K. to ask what the hell good Lutz is as an assistant coach if when we think of weaknesses the first thing is defense?

    #43799

    archdalepack
    Participant

    One of the alumni that wants to keep Lutz. NC guy, has connections with HS coaches and has been an asset during recruiting. We have played good defense at times, but lack consistency. Thought coaching continuity and good assistance was a goal.

    #43800

    pakfanistan
    Participant

    Not that anybody is a position to make a decision cares, but I’m still willing to give it a couple years before declaring Gott a failure or a success. It’s hard not to make comparisons to his time at Alabama though.

    "'Tis better to have posted and had it deleted, than never to have posted at all" - Alfred, Lord Tennyson
    #43801

    TheCOWDOG
    Participant

    Doc Muffette…it is his program. I like the guy.

    I was very pleased to see him work the matchup zone in there. Wouldn’t mind seeing it as the bible.

    (( For you Doc. If we had PMs, I’d PM…but we don’t . I was raised by the creator of the matchup zone. He gave it to Jack Craft, and the rest is zone history. I’m not a knowledgebase football guy.))

    Gott has a few things to work out on the D end. He’s still young.

    #43803

    graywolf
    Participant

    We all know that Gottfried and staff just do not teach effective defense. It takes more effort and basketball savvy to play D than offense. You will win with effective D. V understood this and made up for it with junk D’s that often worked to his liking.

    I hope for his sake that Gottfried works harder on D or he will be on the outside looking in sooner than he thinks.

    #43805

    VaWolf82
    Keymaster

    Gott must produce next year. This is now two years in a row that he hasn’t.

    If you’re implying that Yow will take action next year, then I’m not buying it. (Short of a dead cheerleader showing up in his car.) I doubt that she’s looking forward to another BB coaching search.

    #43807

    bill.onthebeach
    Participant

    GOTT has everything he needs (and we need ), including Coach Lutz whose actual duties no where match his job title, to be the kinda basketball program we all can be proud of…

    GOTT & Company just need to do one thing…
    That is….keep getting better at what they do, while their players are doing the very same thing.
    ———–
    Yeah… this year’s Team… has shown a lot of defensive deficiencies and still does with two games left in the regular season…
    Yeah… truth is this year’s Team “sucked” defensively… except for a few games.
    Yeah… truth is … for the first half of the season… they weren’t much better on the other end of the floor.

    But to play the kind of Defense….
    … that wins championships
    … that Mr. Dog and Dr. Wuf and Paky are talking about above…
    … the kind the ‘Hoos play…
    … the kind Miami played last year…
    … the kind FSU played the year before…

    It’s takes “good kids” a minimum of THREE YEARS to learn…

    It don’t happen with your MacFiveStarOneAndDone Kids… look at Kentucky’s record this year… and you know their lineup…
    It take YEARS….

    Most of the kids coming out of HS today are clueless… Our last three teams being Exhibits A, B & C…

    But to say stuff like the Coaches don’t emphasize, don’t teach, don’t care about defense, unless you’ve been to a couple practices…. may well be just a little myopic…

    On the other hand… if one watched closely and knew what they were looking for…
    This group of kids… has shown us one thing… they have all busted their butts since August to get better and to win some games.

    Like I said at the top….
    GOTT & Company are doing most everything right in terms of building the program…
    And GOTT & Company will get better at what they do too…

    ———–
    The new day is coming… we know not the day but one day soon…

    The sun, moon and stars are all lined up somewhere in GOTT’s fourth or fifth year…
    and that’s when Uncle Roy and Coach Rat hang up their sneakers…

    In the wailing and gnashing of teeth that ensues, there will be a very nice opportunity for those who are “in the right place at the right time” and hopefully they will be wearing red and white.

    And I think Everybody here has GOTT to be there that day !

    #ForEighteenYears? #WeGottDis.pack! #STATEment
    #43808

    WeAreCured
    Participant

    It would be so nice to have a program where these sorts of things are not so common. It gets so old discussing disappointment on such a regular basis. One day… One day.

    I saw Bennett’s presser on SportCenter last night after winning the ACC. He spoke of the importance of defense and the rebuilding task he and his recruits embraced when he took the reigns at UVA. It took Bennett five years. We’re in year 3. I’m not saying that Gott is preaching the same things to his guys, but I don’t think we’re in a position to definitively state that he is not. Give him a couple more years. I love Washington and Anya.

    #43809

    VaWolf82
    Keymaster

    But to say stuff like the Coaches don’t emphasize, don’t teach, don’t care about defense, unless you’ve been to a couple practices…. may well be just a little myopic…

    This is not his first year coaching. We don’t need to watch practice to judge his effectiveness by what we see on the court year after year.

    #43810

    Wulfpack
    Participant

    Knowing what I know about Yow, she won’t stand for three subpar years in a row in our most high profile sport, while the likes of FSU, Miami and UVA cut ‘em down.

    #43811

    bill.onthebeach
    Participant

    Coach-ing v. Coach-ability => chicken v. egg ??

    Teachers can’t teach what students can’t learn….
    Especially where the learning is “incremental”…

    Who reasonably expects the students to do logarithms, quadratics, integrals && differentials… when the class was all about adding, subtracting, multiplying && dividing ??

    #ForEighteenYears? #WeGottDis.pack! #STATEment
    #43812

    Whiteshoes67
    Participant

    I think Chop calls it best, just not a details guy. Plenty of evidence from Alabama and 3 years here. I’m of the mindset that you’re either a hardass who demands and inspires kids to play the “right way” or you aren’t. Doesn’t mean you have to be a jackass, but kids will respect you, play hard for you, appreciate the results and accolades if you get them to buy in.

    If you continue to chalk up poor defense to leftovers from previous staff, youth, inexperience, you’re going to be disappointed with this group. I liked the sprinkling in of zone this year as well, but it was a bad, inactive zone that didn’t rotate well, stop penetration, or rebound. IMO, it was largely played to disguise Lewis’s shortcomings and protect Cuz from foul trouble.

    For all the talk about Lutz as some defensive wizard when this staff was hired, I said then that I didn’t recall Lutz’s defenses at UNCC ever being that stout. From 2003-2010, UNCC had a median adjusted defensive rank around 108-111. Gottfried was similarly bad.

    No one expects Gottfried to be a defensive mastermind, but modest improvement would yield major results simply because his offenses are typically very good. I’m not optimistic. Watched too much SEC ball years ago, and the last three haven’t changed my opinion.

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 80 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.