The Case For Mike Glennon

glennon-at-belk-bowl

Mike Glennon sat behind Russell Wilson for two seasons. His career through his Redshirt Sophomore year was an enigma. No one in #WPN knew really what was behind the scenes. He was 33 for 52 with 1 touchdown and 2 interceptions.

When Russell Wilson decided to try out his baseball luck and forego spring practice, coach Tom O’Brien had a decision to make. Do I let Russell come into Fall camp as the starter and risk the transfer of highly touted but untested Mike Glennon, or do I give Wilson a release and get Glennon for two years? We all know what transpired there.

O’Brien has a sure knack for developing quarterback talent. 3 of the NFL’s current starters have all learned at the hand of the former NC State and Boston College Football Coach. Although the fans didn’t know what we had behind Wilson, O’Brien certainly did.

Glennon would finish his career at NC State completing 60% of his passes for 7,411 yards on a 2:1 touchdown to interception ratio (63 touchdowns to 31 interceptions). His career was certainly quite good considering he had only 2 full years to amass those statistics.

Few get the chance to play out of the gate in their rookie season in the NFL. It’s a man’s game and most rookies come in as boys. The beleaguered Tampa Bay Buccaneers had a comical trip with Josh Freeman behind center before finally deciding to give the reigns to their untested 3rd round draft pick.

Through 13 games, Glennon threw for 2,608 yards, 19 touchdowns and 9 interceptions. He ranked 27th in total QBR (45.6) – certainly not an astounding number – but considering the team around him, Glennon proved himself to be a serviceable quarterback ready for the NFL. Quarterbacks he ranked ahead of in total QBR? Robert Griffin III, Matt Schaub, and Eli Manning, among others. His ranking was 1.1 points below that of Joe Flacco.

To compare him with other contemporary rookie quarterbacks:

Games YDS TD INT QBR
Mike Glennon (2013) 13 2608 19 9 45.59
Andrew Luck (2012) 16 4374 23 18 64.99
Russell Wilson (2012) 16 3118 26 10 69.59
Colin Kaepernick (2012) 13 1814 10 3 76.79
Cam Newton (2011) 16 4051 21 17 55.04
Robert Griffin III (2012) 15 3200 20 5 71.41

Glennon’s numbers, as a whole, place him 6th in that list of rookie quarterbacks, but not by much.┬áKaepernick and Griffin put together tepid sophomore seasons but bring something to the table that Glennon can’t – the ability to move within and evade a collapsing pocket. The teams around each of the quarterbacks listed above are MILES ahead of where Tampa Bay are right now (yes, even Washington). With the right leadership, Tampa Bay will look to add at least one wide receiver to compliment a quarterback who had no weapons outside of Vincent Jackson.

Now that Schiano is out at Tampa Bay, perhaps the Bucs can get some competency back in the skipper’s role. With the new coach, we have no idea if Glennon will retain his starting position or if Tampa Bay will look to replace him with their 1st round (7th) pick in the 2014 draft. Teddy Bridgewater (Louisville) certainly won’t last that long and neither will Johnny Football (Texas A&M) or Brett Hundley (UCLA).

If I were the Buccaneers, I’d look at the other gaping holes that their personnel currently presents them before drafting a quarterback. However, if the Bucs end up trading up, rest assuredly it’s solely for one of the top quarterbacks entering the draft. If they concentrate on filling the other holes, they’ll likely go after Jadeveon Clowney (South Carolina) with their first pick.

Given that Tampa Bay doesn’t pick until after 6 others before it, you can comfortably say that Mike Glennon won at least enough games to give himself another shot as quarterback. Those 4 games he won keeps his team just outside the realm of making it easy for management to replace him. The Texans (1st), Jaguars (3rd), Browns (4th), and Raiders (5th) all need quarterbacks. And the elite quarterbacks will likely all be taken by the time the Buccaneers get to pick their guy.

Whether Glennon becomes a career backup (a job that I would surely take!) or an NFL journeyman is yet to be seen. We know that he at least gave himself a fighting chance with a hand full of wins and statistics that are good enough to take a second look. Besides, he looks great in Red & White.

About tobaccordshow

Born one month before the 1983 Cinderella Story finale, tobaccordshow is one of the deprived NC State fans. Suffering through long bouts of mediocrity, he always finds a way to pull for the Pack.

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This topic contains 24 replies, has 15 voices, and was last updated by  TheCOWDOG 3 months, 1 week ago.

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  • #33933

    tobaccordshow
    Keymaster

    Mike Glennon sat behind Russell Wilson for two seasons. His career through his Redshirt Sophomore year was an enigma. No one in #WPN knew really what
    [See the full post at: The Case For Mike Glennon]

    #33934

    Wulfpack
    Participant

    It will obviously all depend on the hires and the direction Tampa is to go, but he did a fine job under difficult circumstances this year. The one knock, and it is a big one, is his lack of mobility. But everyone knew that and he still did a good job. With Brees, Ryan and Newton firmly situated in the division, it will be a “tall” order for MG and the Bucs.

    #33935

    bill.onthebeach
    Participant

    Considering how Mike stepped in to a “bad situation” — no pun intended… and responded under fire…. there are just too many other “bad” teams in the NFL for him to sit on the sidelines…

    He’s gotten every GM’s attention and he’s gonna play …. somewhere. Could be as a starter or a the backup for a couple of years while he continues to learn… either way, he’s gonna play… if he’s healthy.

    And there just might be worse places and worse teams to play for than Tampa.

    ———–

    Glennon’s first year stats in Tampa… don’t help to end the TOB/Russell/Glennon debate — fact is — they are more fuel for the fire that will burn on for several more years.

    Not that the debate matters one bit to either Russell or Mike… one of this season’s highlights was definitely the Seahawks-Bucs game in Seattle… both on the field and off.

    I guess if you want to be a NFL quarterback, NC STATE has to be one of the five schools that have to be considered.

    Either that or go to Charlottesville and play for ol’ TOB.

    :>}

    #33936

    Tau837
    Participant

    First off, I recommend that you avoid much reliance on QBR as a useful metric. It has major flaws.

    Setting that aside, Glennon did not perform very well this year. He completed just 59.4% of his passes (#26 among qualifying QBs) for just 6.2 yards per attempt (#37 among qualifiers). Those are metrics that are much more appropriate to use when judging QB play, and both of those numbers are awful.

    Glennon’s 19:9 TD to interception ratio was good, especially for a rookie. But there are no positives beyond that.

    ProFootballFocus rated him as the #32 QB this season… and their ratings are cumulative, so the fact that he didn’t play the first 3 games might have kept him from finishing lower. Their metrics show that he was a good deep passer but was terrible under pressure. Not much different than when he was starting for the Wolfpack.

    Glennon ranked #22 in Football Outsiders QB passing DYAR, which measures QB total value. He ranked #26 in FO QB passing DVOA, which measures QB value per play. He ranked #31 and #34, respectively, in FO QB rushing DYAR and DVOA.

    He was better than Josh Freeman, but that says more about how badly Freeman regressed/imploded than it says anything positive about Glennon.

    With Schiano gone, I think it is more likely than not that Glennon will be replaced this offseason, one way or another. If not, I doubt his play will improve much, if at all, and he will likely be replaced after one more season.

    I hope I’m wrong about that, but I don’t see Glennon as ever being more than a backup caliber NFL QB.

    #33937

    bill.onthebeach
    Participant

    … How does one edit these posts ???

    —————
    I heard that some sports writer asked Glennon after a game down in Tampa which included several sacks which failed to rattle the rookie…

    “What do you think about the (NFL) pass rush… those guys are pretty big and fast aren’t they ??”

    To which Glennon replied…. “Yeah they are… but I learned how to handle the pass rush at NC STATE…”

    #33938

    Tau837
    Participant

    ^Sorry, that should say 6.3 YPA. Don’t see any way to edit my post to fix it. But the associated ranking is correct.

    #33939

    tobaccordshow
    Keymaster

    Points taken Tau, however, the sack metric is misleading due to the inability for the Tampa Bay line to buy him any time. That also explains his YPA as well.

    It’s all about where you go. Had Philip gone to NY (as was where he was drafted and Eli Crybaby didn’t demand a trade), Philip would have 2+ rings.

    Glennon landed in TB which gave him an incredibly opportunity to start – but not a place where he can thrive… yet.

    #33940

    tobaccordshow
    Keymaster

    And Tau, I thought about penning two articles, the case for and the case against. This one is obviously the for.

    Are there metrics saying get rid of Glennon? Sure.

    #33941

    Wulfpack
    Participant

    To me the point is he played well enough as a rookie, and most importantly in a difficult situation, to warrant a good long hard look. And you can bet your behind GMs and coaches are doing just that. He showed be can play.

    #33942

    state73
    Participant

    MG will have a long NFL career as a starter if he remains healthy. What a cannon!

    #33943

    Wolfanatic
    Participant

    A very fair assessment of the situation, Tobaccordshow. Being a die-hard Bucs and Wolfpack fan, I can’t help my bias in this situation. Mike’s numbers were certainly very good considering the circus that was going on around him. His 83.9 passer rating bested RGIII, Tannehill, Flaco, Eli Manning, Fitzpatrick, E.J.Manuel, and Geno Smith.

    The truth is that Glennon had little help from the running game after injuries to Doug Martin, Mike James, and Jeff Demps. The poor excuse for the running game very often led to second and long and third and long situations as the offensive line failed to produce any daylight more often than not. Ted Larsen took over for an ineffective Jamon Meredith at the end of the season at RG, but didn’t fare much better. Left tackle Donald Penn resembled a swinging gate far too often, which led to numerous sacks of Glennon.

    In the passing game, Mike Williams, the number two receiver was placed on IR in mid October leaving only Jackson as a threat at the position. Rookie Russell Shepard also was put on IR leaving the Bucs to finish the season with Chris Owusu, third string TE Tim Wright, Tiquan Underwood, and rookie Skye Dawson to strike fear in the hearts of opposing secondaries. It was certainly a recipe for double-teaming Jackson, thus making Glennon’s job even more difficult.

    Personally, given the situation, I believe Glennon has proved himself such that the new GM and Head Coach will look to fill voids elsewhere on the team. With 13 games under his belt without a great deal of offensive help I believe he will surprise a lot of the naysayers. With Martin back in the running game, Williams back at wide receiver, and veteran Carl Nicks back at right guard the Bucs offense should be much improved. The return of Stocker, Crabtree, and the elusive Demps will also help Glennon to manage the game. The Bucs need a defensive end to make up for the bust Da’Quan Bowers, still more help in the secondary, and perhaps a new left tackle more than they need another rookie quarterback to learn under fire. Hopefully, the new GM and Head Coach agree, for Mikey’s sake.

    #33944

    coach13
    Participant

    The eyeball test told me he did a darn good job under less than desirable circumstances.

    #33945

    Tau837
    Participant

    It is actually quite interesting to compare Wilson and Glennon, especially since they both are Wolfpack alums. It’s true that Wilson was in his second year, which clearly gave him an advantage. But many of the same excuses being made for Glennon in this thread also apply to Wilson.

    Seattle’s #1 WR (Harvin) missed 15 games this season.
    Seattle’s #2 WR (Rice) missed 8 games this season.
    Seattle’s #1 LT (Okung) missed 8 games this season.
    Seattle’s #1 RT (Giacomini) missed 7 games this season.

    Beyond that, Seattle’s #1 TE, C, RG, and LG also each missed 1-3 games. As far as targets, Wilson certainly had no one comparable to Vincent Jackson.

    Wilson was under pressure on more snaps than any QB in the NFL this season, and was mostly without his top 2 targets, yet he completed 63.1% of his passes and averaged 8.2 YPA. Glennon was under the next highest amount of pressure, and we’ve discussed his performance already.

    Is it reasonable to explain away the difference by the fact that Wilson had one more year in the NFL? I tend to think not, I tend to think Wilson is a much more capable QB who will start for 15+ years in the NFL, whereas Glennon will likely be a journeyman.

    It will be interesting to see it play out.

    #33946

    Gene
    Participant

    Not as scientific as some of the metrics you guys use, but Seattle had the 4th best rushing attack this season. Tampa Bay had the 22nd best.

    The offensive load was not as dependent on Wilson, as the load was at Tampa.

    Plus Seattle has a very good defense, which can take the pressure off the offense to always have to make plays.

    Wilson is doing very well in Seattle, I’ll take nothing away from him.

    I just think if you took Glennon and plugged into Philadelphia, in place of Nick Foles, Glennon could put up Foles type numbers. The two are fairly similar in size, (lack) of athleticism and having strong arms that can make all the throws needed from an NFL QB.

    The new coaching staff in Philadelphia has turned out to be really good and Foles is playing at a high level, for the most part, since he became the starter.

    #33947

    Tau837
    Participant

    Gene, I think you are severely underrating Foles with that post.

    Foles is much more mobile than Glennon. Foles is much better at moving in the pocket and outside the pocket to make throws (as opposed to running). He is also a better runner… he rushed 57 times for 221 yards and 3 TDs this season, compared to Glennon’s 27 rushing attempts for 37 yards and 0 TDs. Foles also turned the ball over much less often.

    #33948

    Texpack
    Participant

    If Gary Kubiak ends up in TB we will know in two years how good Glennon can be. That would be a much better outcome for MG than Lovie Smith.

    #34383

    BJD95
    Keymaster

    Kubiak in TB would be ideal for MG’s development. Kubiak is a fantastic offensive/QB mind. Denver took him in the 7th round the same year they got Elway.

    Selfishly, though, I want Kubiak to be OC in Denver next year.

    A 6.3 YPA is by no means good (that and TD/INT ratio are the metrics I trust), but it’s acceptable given the direness of the situation in Tampa, and the very good (especially for a rookie) TD/INT ratio. I think you have to give him another year, and see if he progresses. Contrary to the prevailing wisdom, I don’t like this QB class at all. If I were drafting, would wait and take Aaron Murray.

    Oh yeah, and backup NFL QB is easily the best job in America.

    #35015

    wilmwolf80
    Participant

    All of these statistics are great. But I think it is unwise to only look at things from a statistical perspective. there are aspects to the job that are unmeasurable. I needn’t remind everyone that based solely on “measurables” the great majority of “experts” didn’t think that Russell would ever play a down at NFL QB.

    Tampa Bay was a dumpster fire from the start of the season. Are there QBs out there that could have done better in Glennon’s shoes? Without a doubt. But we have to remember that he was thrown in to the fire, in a terrible situation, and was serviceable at worst, and decent at best. If any thing his statistics for the year should match up pretty close to his years here, because like the NC State teams he played for, the Bucs were woeful in several key areas that help a QBs success, namely pass blocking and rushing. As impressive a season as PeytonBot V2.0 has had this year, you can’t tell me that he would have been as successful with Tampa Bay’s O-line blocking for him. It’s hard to complete passes from your butt, and it’s hard to pass when the other team knows there is no threat of either a. a running game, or b. a mobile QB.

    If I were in charge of the Bucs, and thankfully I’m not, I would not be drafting a QB. In fact, if I were in charge, I would be trading my high pick for multiple picks lower in the first and early second rounds to load up on skilled linemen. Is Mike going to have a great career? Who knows, certainly not any of us. Did he play well enough for to earn another year at the helm? I think so.

    #35019

    Gene
    Participant

    Tau,

    Nick Foles played in 7 games his rookie year, when the Eagle’s finished 4-12, i.e. on a bad team like Glennon is on this year.

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/14877/nick-foles

    He rushed 11 times for 42 yards. He had six TD’s to 5 Int’s with a 60.8% completion percentage, and averaged 6.41 yards per attempt.

    My point is the Eagles cleaned house of bad players. Had two good drafts in 2012 and 2013 and got a new infusion of life with a new coaching staff that has turned out to be pretty good.

    Glennon is not good enough to excel with a bad team around him. In a good situation, with a good coaching staff and good talent around him, I think he could one of the better QB’s in the NFL.

    He seems very similar to Nick Foles, who is a product of the system he is in at this point in his career.

    I see not reason, why Glennon cannot be that good in the right situation.

    #35056

    44rules
    Participant

    If you include Matt Ryan, TOB coached four of the NFL’s current starting QBs, not three.

    #35057

    Gowolves
    Participant

    Not being a smart ass. I honestly don’t know. If Kubiak is so good why did Schaub regress every year? I think Glennon had a great year for being a rookie and playing for a dysfunctional team. It is all relative. I think he will continue to improve.

    #35066

    Tau837
    Participant

    Which starter did TOB coach besides Ryan, Wilson, and Glennon?

    #35214

    tobaccordshow
    Keymaster

    Yeah, I’m not identifying the 4th.

    #36504

    StateFans
    Keymaster

    Heck, TOB & Bible had at least 4 or 5 NFL starters through the years at Boston College.

    #36516

    TheCOWDOG
    Participant

    TOB Hartsell
    TOB M.Hasselbeck
    Bible T.Hasselbeck
    Bible Ryan
    Bible St.Pierre

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