Hole-mageddon Post-Game Semi-Rational Discussion

Yes, that sucked. We went into Chapel Hill, played poorly to start…then clawed our way back to a small lead with all the momentum in the world. Then we crapped the bed down the stretch on the way to a blowout loss. A B+ effort by the Pack wins that game easily…and we didn’t even come close. One high profile individual didn’t even bring his D- game, or in all probability, multiple lobes of his brain.

But this team is still on track to go 11-7 and land no worse than a 6 seed. We CAN still be a very dangerous team in the post-season. This was ONE horrible game, at an inopportune time. After all, losing to a blue (especially light blue) hurts way worse than a clunker in Winston-Salem. We can’t let it beat us in Tallahassee and Atlanta, too.

Let’s also talk about coaching. Yes, I did (and still do) criticize his re-inserting Calvin, when the Purvis/Buckets/Zo/Woo/Talibeard five were clicking on all cylinders. But I do understand that it’s a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” scenario. We absolutely NEED Calvin in Calvinistic form, or you can spend time outdoors with your family this March. He’s essential. You can’t lose him. You need him to feel he still has the coach’s and his teammates’ trust.

And let’s remember how to be nuanced. Mark Gottfried is not primarily an in-game strategist. He certainly has his moments (he was a maestro at Clemson, when so many players were out of synch), but his strengths are primarily as a recruiter, motivator, and mentor. ALMOST NOBODY is an expert in all phases. Roy Williams is VERY similar, though with a different temperament. He also gets critized sometimes as “sucking” in-game…when really, it’s just not his BEST skill. He’s a sure-fire first ballot Hall of Famer. Not saying MG is THAT…but he still has plenty of ceiling, and can succeed as who he is. Saying “he’s no better than Sidney Lowe on game day” and such…that’s just nonsense. We all take things too far in the heat of the moment, but I have seen that enough that I want to nip it in the bud.

Let this also be a general plea for moderation and critical thinking. It’s ok to criticize, and point out things that annoy us. Nobody should criticize other fans for not being 100% butterflies and sunshine. But it’s silly to go overboard in the other direction, and act like our basketball program and even this season are somehow lost cause dumpster fires. They’re not. Kids, I went to NC State from 1991-95. I know a dumpster fire when I see one.

Our coaches and players need to feel the sting of this rivalry loss, but they also need to learn from what happened and be better for the experience. It’s all still right in our hands.

About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

12-13 Basketball Big Four Rivals Mark Gottfried

171 Responses to Hole-mageddon Post-Game Semi-Rational Discussion

  1. Wufpacker 02/23/2013 at 8:03 PM #

    “Or even worse, we could end up having to play Arizona State in the opening round.”

    Oh my lord, that hadn’t even occurred to me. Holy crap that would be a horrible way to end this season.

  2. Wulfpack 02/23/2013 at 8:09 PM #

    Lunardi currently has us as a 6 seed. He is usually right on it. However, that was before the UNC loss. If we drop one we shouldn’t, or don’t show in the ACC Tourney, I do think we can slip to a 7 or 8. Regardless, IF we play like we know how, we will be a very tough out for anybody. And I mean anybody.

    At the same time, if we do not defend, it will be curtains early. I am STILL holding out hope. The team has been a disappointment considering the NBA talent on the roster, but still time and opportunity to right the ship.

    Roy and Gott do indeed have very similar styles. You could tell Roy wanted this one badly. Say what you want about the guy, but what I do very much like about him is the way he relishes this rivalry. He truly believes in it, and wants to kick our tails each time out. That makes the rivalry even that much better. We have some work to do, but I look forward to this game in the years to come. That is more than I can say for the past 30 years.

  3. PoppaJohn 02/23/2013 at 8:11 PM #

    Roy made in-game adjustments in the second half that Gott didn’t respond to.

    Yes, the future is brighter than it has been since V.
    However, it is a heartbreaker to watch the best combination of talent and experience we are likely to have for a while (most of these incoming players will never be seniors) not have the special season they are capable of having.

    I’m thinking Sweet 16 is as good as it gets this year, if that.

    N&O Headline. “Unrealized Potential, or, the Season That Wasn’t”

  4. Wulfpack 02/23/2013 at 8:11 PM #

    Yea, Arizona State is currently in as a 12 seed. UVA as an 11. Still a ways to go.

  5. TheAliasTroll 02/23/2013 at 8:12 PM #

    Scott Wood, on what went wrong: “I don’t think it’s fatigue. It’s a couple other things.” Like what? “I’m not allowed to say.”

    Wait till next year, folks. (AGAIN)

  6. Alpha Wolf 02/23/2013 at 8:19 PM #

    There is such a thing as uncoachable players.

    Probably a sport you are not familiar with, but I know BJD and a few others may know this name: Mario Balotelli

  7. Wulfpack 02/23/2013 at 8:20 PM #

    Doesn’t sound good, does it Troll? Something is certainly going on. I have cooled off from the game thread and don’t want to rant about a specific player any longer… so I will just leave it at that.

  8. Alpha Wolf 02/23/2013 at 8:20 PM #

    Scott Wood, on what went wrong: “I don’t think it’s fatigue. It’s a couple other things.” Like what? “I’m not allowed to say.”

    I think it’s been pretty clear for some time that there is a chemistry issue on this team and there have been rumors of in-fighting that have made their way out of the Dail Center.

    I am not quite sure what it is exactly, or if the coaches are a part of it versus some of the players or if it is between the players only, but it’s pretty clear that they are having a hard time working together as a unit.

  9. highstick 02/23/2013 at 8:27 PM #

    Chemical issues are “betwixt the ears”..

  10. Wufpacker 02/23/2013 at 8:27 PM #

    “I’m not allowed to say.”

    Yeah, that does not sound good.

  11. john of sparta 02/23/2013 at 8:29 PM #

    that’s a good one.
    what are the odds?
    NCSU v. ASU in Austin.
    trifecta:
    1. ASU makes it.
    2. we’re paired.
    3. in Austin.

  12. mak4dpak 02/23/2013 at 8:30 PM #

    Went to the game in Chapel Hell, and unfortunately CJ was there to, must of left Calvin back in Raleigh. I mean our star player scores 6 points, has 6 turnovers, and can’t make free throws. Can the NBA take him off our hands? He is a liability. We can’t play all of our games in the friendly confines of the PNC. But on the bright side, I will take a loss to them now, versus a win over them in the ACC tourney, but only if Calvin plays. I am sure Calvin will appear Wednesday, against BC.

  13. TLeo 02/23/2013 at 8:30 PM #

    At the start of the season I was hoping and even expecting a split with Duke and unc. Well, that is what happened and so I’m not totally unhappy. What I am upset about is the way these players continue to play lazy defense, selfish offense and without any concentration so often. There are some players who apparently are not able to do, or intentionally refuse to do what they need to do. A few games ago after a loss, Wood came right out and said that Gott had told them what to expect and do but yet they did not do those things in the game.I think there will likely be 2 more road losses coming up and I can’t see this bunch getting past the first or second round of either the acc or ncaa.

  14. Wulfpack 02/23/2013 at 8:31 PM #

    We blew a great opportunity to finally garner a win over Roy’s Heels in Chapel Hill. You won’t find a wider talent differential than this year, and it was in our favor. We blew them off the floor in Raleigh, and they nearly did the same to us in the second half today. We are going to lose an awful lot next year, and Carolina is reloading. Paige, to me, has some game that is just now starting to show. He is going to be extremely solid for them. But hey, I will take my split and be happy with it for the time being, and hope we get an opportunity to exact revenge in Greensboro. Hope everybody shows up for that game if it comes to fruition.

  15. BJD95 02/23/2013 at 8:32 PM #

    Yep, Alpha. Balotelli is the all-time coach’s nightmare. Just plain screwy.

    We saw flashes of a chemistry issue, but the body language was so much better against FSU that I thought it was hammered out.

    I totally like how Roy hates us. Makes me respect him, which in turn makes me hate him more. Rivalry stuff is fun.

  16. Alpha Wolf 02/23/2013 at 8:38 PM #

    It sounds like next year, we may possibly see addition by subtraction.

    Here’s an interesting hypothetical: say CJL’s draft stock drops out of the first and maybe even the second round. Soooo…he decides to come back for his senior year.

    Does Gottfried take him back? Take him back under certain conditions? Or tell him, ‘no, CJ, we’ve tried and tried and you’re not playing inside a team concept?’

    I think Leslie is a highly iffy first round pick because the scouts are seeing what everyone else is — a player with a lot of talent but one who apparently doesn’t want to play within himself or do the little things like master free throws or the physical principles of solid defense.

    They know if CJL is driving into trees like JMM and UNC and getting shut down that the likes of Dwayne Wade and Lebron James are going to smack him backwards and laugh in his face.

    That in mind, I start wondering that if this draft keeps getting deeper if CJL’s stock drops into the third round. And if that happens if he may decide to come back.

  17. TOBtime 02/23/2013 at 8:38 PM #

    BS, BS and more BS. There is NO such thing as an uncoachable player. Maybe a player who won’t listen but not one who is uncoachable. Sit his tail on the pine until the pout wears off. If this team can play from behind and take the lead without CALVIN on the floor then so be it. IF CALVIN wants to keep pouting he can hand in his uniforms and call an agent. You’re playing like you already have.
    And that scenario would hurt us in March? Really? 5 guys playing together will ALWAYS accomplish more than 1 superstar and if that isn’t the case then what do we do? We’re going to lose to a team we shouldn’t WITH CALVIN so who cares if we lose without him?
    The heck with CALVIN. 6 pts and 6 TO’s and they’re afraid he’ll pout? Let me guess, he might not show up mentally? For heavens sake people – NC State pays MG, NOT CALVIN.

  18. Pack1997 02/23/2013 at 8:38 PM #

    I think the main issue is CJ clearly does not listen to the coaches. He has shown it more times in the past 6 games, than any time last year. Brown still continues to have a few lackadaisical passes that turn into easy buckets for our opponents. I know we are thin at big man, but CJL should be the 6th man for the rest of the season. Gott needs to send a message early in his career.

    Also, I don’t understand the complaints on Gott. We are clearly a better program than anytime in the past 25 years. We are on the upswing and he doesn’t even have a roster of his players. We have 8 scholarship players. We have one consistent 3 pt threat. We shoot less 3s than almost any other team in the country yet we are in every game. That is very impressive since most team 3 pt shots are 30% of their point total or more. I think we all need to jump off the coach and become a bit more realistic

  19. motorhead 02/23/2013 at 8:39 PM #

    After FSU I also thought that we were working things out. Woods comments are very disappointing.

  20. Wulfpack 02/23/2013 at 8:40 PM #

    I am keenly aware that our strength is in the post. But it would be nice to have someone other than Wood that can stroke an outside shot consistently. We are going to need it. Bullock matched Wood with 5 threes. But Hairston and Paige each picked up two, while no other Wolfpack player outside of Wood got one. That’s a 12 point differential right there. Maybe Lewis is that other guy, if he can get the minutes. Outside of that, shooting 46% from the line doesn’t help.

  21. inhoc... 02/23/2013 at 8:43 PM #

    “This was ONE horrible game, at an inopportune time”

    I guess Maryland, UVA, Miami and wake were also just one game at an inopportune times.

    There’s a reason this team went from #6 (a little over rated to begin with) to not even in the top 25, and it’s not just because of an inopportune time.

    Obviously I don’t have he answered to the problems, but this team has shown based on performance that its not a top 25 teams, and there is pretty much no evidence to prove otherwise, until they pull their $hit together and win some games that are important rather than just one emotional signature win against duke.

  22. TOBtime 02/23/2013 at 8:47 PM #

    You’re exactly right Wulfpack. This team needs to run laps at the track with stairs thrown in after every mile. After the 3rd stair set you run it into Reynolds and shoot 100 FT’s. Then do it over.

  23. highstick 02/23/2013 at 8:56 PM #

    Pardon moi, but there are not only uncoachable players, there’s a multitude of fans who aren’t paying attention.

    Or are in denial!

    There are millions of uncoachable players. There are millions of people who think they are smarter than their coaches, teachers, parents, and the list goes on.

    Successful coaches steer away from those types though except in desperation! Not saying Gott was the one because he didn’t recruit them…

  24. TheAliasTroll 02/23/2013 at 9:00 PM #

    I’m of the opinion that if the player won’t do what the coach says then the coach needs to sit their ass.

  25. TOBtime 02/23/2013 at 9:01 PM #

    Oh I agree 100 % stick. Gott did not recruit Calvin. WHat I meant was that if you DON’T want to listen and think you know best -park it. I’ll coach someoe who is coachable. I just don’t see the loss of Calvin as being anything that will hurt us. His current play is KILLING us.

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