Hole-mageddon Post-Game Semi-Rational Discussion

Yes, that sucked. We went into Chapel Hill, played poorly to start…then clawed our way back to a small lead with all the momentum in the world. Then we crapped the bed down the stretch on the way to a blowout loss. A B+ effort by the Pack wins that game easily…and we didn’t even come close. One high profile individual didn’t even bring his D- game, or in all probability, multiple lobes of his brain.

But this team is still on track to go 11-7 and land no worse than a 6 seed. We CAN still be a very dangerous team in the post-season. This was ONE horrible game, at an inopportune time. After all, losing to a blue (especially light blue) hurts way worse than a clunker in Winston-Salem. We can’t let it beat us in Tallahassee and Atlanta, too.

Let’s also talk about coaching. Yes, I did (and still do) criticize his re-inserting Calvin, when the Purvis/Buckets/Zo/Woo/Talibeard five were clicking on all cylinders. But I do understand that it’s a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” scenario. We absolutely NEED Calvin in Calvinistic form, or you can spend time outdoors with your family this March. He’s essential. You can’t lose him. You need him to feel he still has the coach’s and his teammates’ trust.

And let’s remember how to be nuanced. Mark Gottfried is not primarily an in-game strategist. He certainly has his moments (he was a maestro at Clemson, when so many players were out of synch), but his strengths are primarily as a recruiter, motivator, and mentor. ALMOST NOBODY is an expert in all phases. Roy Williams is VERY similar, though with a different temperament. He also gets critized sometimes as “sucking” in-game…when really, it’s just not his BEST skill. He’s a sure-fire first ballot Hall of Famer. Not saying MG is THAT…but he still has plenty of ceiling, and can succeed as who he is. Saying “he’s no better than Sidney Lowe on game day” and such…that’s just nonsense. We all take things too far in the heat of the moment, but I have seen that enough that I want to nip it in the bud.

Let this also be a general plea for moderation and critical thinking. It’s ok to criticize, and point out things that annoy us. Nobody should criticize other fans for not being 100% butterflies and sunshine. But it’s silly to go overboard in the other direction, and act like our basketball program and even this season are somehow lost cause dumpster fires. They’re not. Kids, I went to NC State from 1991-95. I know a dumpster fire when I see one.

Our coaches and players need to feel the sting of this rivalry loss, but they also need to learn from what happened and be better for the experience. It’s all still right in our hands.

About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

12-13 Basketball Big Four Rivals Mark Gottfried

171 Responses to Hole-mageddon Post-Game Semi-Rational Discussion

  1. tuckerdorm1983 02/23/2013 at 6:47 PM #

    take a deep breath. 2 steps forward and one step back. Gott will put forth teams in the years to come that will win consistently in orange and durham county. Step away from the edge you have too much to live for.

  2. peteavio 02/23/2013 at 6:48 PM #

    Bravo, good sir.

    They looked out of sync for most of the game, with the one exception noted above. Some decent individual efforts, but i never saw the team that beat the holes back in Releighwood. Holes didn’t play that great either, this was a gift.

    I kept having the toddler yelling for Calvin to wake up. Didn’t work.

    Oh well….i’m now out of bourbon, what to do.

  3. highstick 02/23/2013 at 6:52 PM #

    Show me! Dang it, show me!!!!!!!!!!!!! 6th seed in a conference that is sucking is not impressive.

  4. theTHRILL 02/23/2013 at 6:55 PM #

    “Gott will put forth teams in the years to come that will win consistently in orange and durham county.”

    I’ll believe it when I see it. I’m way too jaded to buy into pie in the sky optimism like that any longer.

  5. BJD95 02/23/2013 at 6:57 PM #

    I mean 6th seed in the big dance. Don’t see how we are anything but 4 or 5 in the ACCT.

  6. tuckerdorm1983 02/23/2013 at 6:58 PM #

    Lowes players are head cases. CJ thought about the game too much for the last few days. He wanted to dominate. Once he started screwing up it became endemic for him and the rest of the team. Within five mins of the first half I knew we were screwed. Gott is a proven quantity of Murray State and Alabama. He knows what to do.

  7. DrWuffette1day 02/23/2013 at 7:00 PM #

    You said it all BJD, however you are a little rough on Calvin. The rest of the team didn’t help him – at all.

  8. Whiteshoes67 02/23/2013 at 7:06 PM #

    I think there are windows of opportunity that you have to seize if you want to reach the pinnacle of your profession. Gottfried, I’m afraid, is unable or unwilling to face some of his own deficiencies as a coach in order to realize that potential. Place me squarely in the same camp as aliastroll…I see very little overall improvement by this team, which consists of four veteran starters with a lot of skill and talent. Defensively subpar on the perimeter and down low. Not a solid rebounding team. Too many turnovers.

    I’m not writing off this team. They lost 3 very closes ones without their starting PG. They’ve laid a few eggs, but they’ve been in most of those games down to the last stretch. My problem is the lack of improvement and consistency. To be expected from underclassmen, but not from Jrs. and Srs.

  9. TheAliasTroll 02/23/2013 at 7:06 PM #

    “but they also need to learn from what happened and be better for the experience.”

    This is my main complaint with this season.. we don’t seem to learn and get better from our losses. I don’t see it happening and we won’t go far in the NCAA tournament as this seemingly lack of disciplined team.

  10. BJD95 02/23/2013 at 7:07 PM #

    Doc Wuffette – I may just not be smart enough to have noticed that. I am a man, after all…

  11. Whiteshoes67 02/23/2013 at 7:13 PM #

    BJD95, you say on track to go 11-7? So who else beats us during regular season?

  12. sjmac11 02/23/2013 at 7:14 PM #

    Get the F*ck out CJ. Please, just give the same effort, just play like you dont give two shits for the rest of the season and we can all move on. Whatever, loss on the road esp. Chapel Hell or Duke is a tough out so…whatever. Just ridiculous we have douche bags who couldn’t even get on the court last year eating our lunch. I love all the optimist on here…..voting we’d win today, what a damn lexapro induced joke! There is no cure for cancer, and we my friend have a stage 4.

  13. Whiteshoes67 02/23/2013 at 7:19 PM #
  14. BJD95 02/23/2013 at 7:23 PM #

    We should be like 60/40 favorites in Tally and ATL. Probability analysis says it’s likely we go 1-for-2. But there is a realistic chance of 12-6 (maybe like 25 or 30 percent) – but 11-7 is the most likely outcome.

  15. motorhead 02/23/2013 at 7:24 PM #

    Whiteshoes, good idea. Overall Im pleased with where our school is heading. Theres a lot of excitement and momentum for the Pack. No NC this year, but only one team can win it. At this rate who knows who will.

  16. ncsu7405 02/23/2013 at 7:25 PM #

    Gott is still coaching players who cost Sydney his job. They still look quite capable of costing a coach his job. Until the players who must make a significant contribution to the success of the ‘Pack stop pouting, we will continue to have undesirable results, especially against teams with quality players. Let’s let the Freshmen become Seniors before we pass judgement. I was a Sr. in 1974, so I have seen a dominant Wolfpack team. We are not back yet, but there is hope!

  17. DrWuffette1day 02/23/2013 at 7:27 PM #

    A very wise man. Just wanted to add a thought/opinion to tag on to your thoughts. Calvin does deserve a few arrows as does Brown, Wood and Warren.

    Maybe we’re looking at this wrong. Maybe they have decided to come together as a team – a very awful, bad, sucky team who refuse to complement eachother’s strengths.

    (I better go now.) Hope you have a better week next week.

    I can’t believe the people turning on Gott. Have they forgotten that during the Lowe years, we were fighting not to be LAST in the conference? Now after two years of Gott, some are commenting about his coaching. We are 500X better than where we were. We are fighting for the top tier teams for the 3 or 4 seed in the ACC in YEAR 2 and that’s after a miracle sweet 16 appearance last year. It’s ok to question, I guess, but I just don’t get it. With that logic, I do question those people.

  18. BJD95 02/23/2013 at 7:28 PM #

    The least flawed team I see is Gonzaga. That should let you know just how not-dominant this field of contenders is.

    A common betting idea I hear every year is – would you rather pick 4 teams to win it all, or take the field?

    I definitely take the field in 2013.

  19. ILPackfan 02/23/2013 at 7:34 PM #

    The Pack had opportunities despite not doing a whole lot to help themselves today. CJ was a non-factor for us (6 pts) and a huge factor for them (6 turnovers).

    The one thing we couldn’t afford to do–turn the ball over–we did. Oh, and although total fouls weren’t really a factor, the guys missed more free throws than they made. It’s actually impressive that we didn’t lose by 20+ given the way the last eight minutes played out.

    Hopefully we take out a lot of frustration on BC in a few days.

  20. BJD95 02/23/2013 at 7:38 PM #

    Home against BC is a good cure for what ails ya. Should be good for Calvin’s frame of mind, at minimum. He will abuse those pimply little sh-ts. :D

  21. TheAliasTroll 02/23/2013 at 7:39 PM #

    Calvin’s is a force to be reckoned with when NC State is up by 15 or more.

  22. TheCOWDOG 02/23/2013 at 7:45 PM #

    There is such a thing as uncoachable players.

    Sometimes ya get a couple on the same floor at the same time.

    As a coach you stress everything ya know, everyday. Sometimes the magic works, sometimes it doesn’t.

  23. Jediwolf 02/23/2013 at 7:54 PM #

    Everyone needs to take a deep breath and calm down. If we had split with the blues two years ago Everyone would be ecstatic. We still have a great team, a great coach, and a lot of basketball left to play. GO PACK!!

  24. 61Packer 02/23/2013 at 7:54 PM #

    This was a signature program loss. They can’t blame this one on losing to a better team, let alone that it was the refs. If you took this squad’s mental toughness and rolled it down the edge of a razor blade, it would be the equivalent of rolling a bb shot down I-85/I-40 through Burlington.

    My love affair with Leslie, and with Brown to a lesser extent, has been on-again, off-again. But this Wolfpack performance, against maybe Roy’s worst Carolina team, has made me admit out loud what most non-State basketball fans have been saying for some time now- that this State team isn’t going to accomplish squat this season, and our program isn’t going anywhere anytime soon.

    While Carolina was throwing bricks everywhere in that first half, we were committing maybe a dozen turnovers, and missing more free throws than we made. We trailed despite our opponent not getting one free throw attempt for the entire period. In the second half, we got behind by 10, then caught up and actually led on two occasions, only to then quit playing defense and fall back again. Wait, that’s not true; I don’t remember any decent Wolfpack defense for a sustained period in the entire contest. And the closing 21-4 run by Carolina pretty much said it all. It was in some ways much like the final ten minutes in Cameron last season.

    Aside from the usual hustle from Richard Howell, this collection of players (I refuse to call them a team anymore) just needs to move on. I don’t know what will become of Brown if he tries to go pro this year, but I do know that Leslie’s performance today, which was consistent with his career to this point, should make him the #1 “head case” selection in the upcoming NBA draft.

    Despite being picked to finish in first place in the ACC this season, we instead stand 8-6, with a good chance to end up 10-8. We should win our home games vs BC and WF, but the GT and FSU road games will likely be WFT games. We’ll stagger into Greensboro on March 14 as the league’s most under-achieving “team” this season, and after running out of gas on Saturday afternoon, we’ll make it 26 seasons in a row without an ACC title.

    I expect the RPI will be good to us, however, and we’ll probably draw a higher-than-deserved #6 seed in a faraway region, and end up getting bounced out by a tempo-minded #11 mid-major in the first round. Or even worse, we could end up having to play Arizona State in the opening round. Don’t bet against that one, because the NCAAT selection committee loves doing this more than this team hates playing road games.

  25. highstick 02/23/2013 at 8:03 PM #

    “Lowes players are head cases.”

    I’ll go you one better..All of these prima donnas are head cases..Don’t matter which team!

    The game has gone to hell while we yelled “let them play”..Well, “let them play” to players who cannot go from one end of the court to the other without committing at least two violations is really a “cartload of crap” cause it ain’t basketball. Sorry, but CJ must have watched to many Hopsborough tapes cause he’s almost as bad..but I’m not picking on CJ..all of these clowns can’t play the game, they can just jump high.

    Spoiled little brats that will make millions because there are people stupid enough to idolize them and buy tickets..NBA went to hell years ago and College basketball is following. I’m amazed at those who give a rat’s ass.

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