Wednesday Woolgathering

August 17, 2011

NC STATE FOOTBALL

CHIP ALEXANDER (N&O)
Wolfpack offense still lagging

N.C. State coach Tom O’Brien gave out some dismal offensive statistics Tuesday after the Wolfpack’s third preseason football scrimmage.

The offense had four passes intercepted and allowed seven sacks. There were 15 tackles for loss by the defense, which limited the offense to 98 rushing yards on 38 carries.

But O’Brien had no sooner read off the stats than he all but dismissed them. He said it was a situational scrimmage and there was a lot of work on end-of-game drives.

Brett Friedlander (WilmingtonStarNews)
Baumann already getting his kicks at N.C. State

N.C. State was in desperate need of a punter and Wil Baumann is as good as they come. But that’s not only the reason the Wilmington native decided to sign with the Wolfpack.

“They’ve got a great computer engineering program, and that’s the major I wanted to go for,” he said.

It didn’t hurt that the starting job was there for the taking the moment he walked onto campus.

Austin Johnson (PackPride)
O’Brien Discusses Third Scrimmage

“I’m not asking [Glennon] to get into [leadership] even though its a function of being a quarterback. The thing he has to do is run the offense and if he runs the offense efficiently that will be leadership for us right now.”

“[Proctor] didn’t do what he was supposed to do as far as being a champion in the classroom and the community so he doesn’t have a chance to play on the football field. Permanently – he will transfer I think he’s going to a junior college somewhere.”

Jacey Zembal (TheWolfpacker.com)
Situational Scrimmages challenges players

The third of four scrimmages tests the players mentally almost as much physically.

NC State coach Tom O’Brien has the players think on the fly, adjust to either trailing or leading in the final minutes of games, and what could bring overtime in certain situations. He said the team goes through six different scenarios and it’s a practice they’ve been using since being at Boston College.

“It’s all three-minute or four-minute situations,” O’Brien said. “It’s all end of the game. There are so many learning things that happen with this on all sides of the football. It’s a great drill for the quarterbacks, and good for the coaches. It’s just good for everybody.

“Three times last year we lost in the last minute of the football game, so that is why we do these things.”

WRAL Video
Tom O’Brien said Glennon’s not a finished product

Following the Pack’s scrimmage Tuesday, Tom O’Brien said they are working through real game situations, but Glennon still working on things.

Sammy Batten (Fayetteville Observer)
Everett Proctor, Jack Britt alum, leaves N.C. State football program

Proctor was the all-region quarterback as a senior in 2008 when he helped Jack Britt reach the state 4-AA championship game. He was recruited to play quarterback at N.C. State, but a shoulder injury that occurred in high school led to surgery and forced him to sit out the 2009 season with the Wolfpack.

The 6-foot-2, 219-pounder shifted to safety upon his return and played in two games during the 2010 season against Western Carolina and Wake Forest. Proctor moved to yet another position last spring, going back to offense to play wide receiver. He did not appear to be headed for significant playing time this season, despite the uncertainty surrounding the N.C. State receiving corps during preseason camp.

NC STATE BASKETBALL

Jacey Zembal (TheWolfpacker.com)
Amile Jefferson impressed by visit to NC State

“I thought it went good,” Jefferson said. “It was great to finally get to meet and interact with the coaches. The players weren’t back on campus yet, but just spending time with Coach Moxley and Coach [Mark] Gottfried. I got to interact with all the coaches and learn more about them.”

The energy of NC State’s new coaching staff impressed Jefferson.

“You can feel that the school and the people around are just yearning for something big to happen,” Jefferson said. “You can feel their passion to bring NC State back to where the fans and the people that know the school and the tradition where it want it to be.”

The NCSU coaches were able to give Jefferson a vision on how his inside-outside scoring skills could be used at forward.

“Coach runs the UCLA offense, so he just showed me the spots where I can be effective on the floor, push the ball and rebound,” Jefferson said. “They run those little plays from the elbow and double screens for guys, and that point forward pick and roll.”

Jefferson was surprised by the feel of the campus in comparison to the colleges he’s seen in Philadelphia.

“I didn’t realize how big the campus was,” Jefferson said. “It was really nice and almost like it’s own little city. That was definitely good to get a better feel for the campus, and just the school in general.”

NC STATE NON-REVENUE

BRETT HONEYCUTT – CORRESPONDENT (N&O)
Wolfpack’s Iyevbele out of blocks fast

While growing up, Kenyetta Iyevbele’s parents encouraged her to get involved in extra-curricular activities.

She chose running, but it wasn’t a big hit with her at first.
“It took a little bit of time,” said Iyevbele, a Nigerian name pronounced Yib-uh-lee. “I wasn’t fond of running. It wasn’t my favorite thing to do. It was sort of like field day. I was kind of having fun.”

UNC FALLOUT

Doc (Tarheelfanblog)
Holy Cow, What a Tuesday

Much to the chagrin of ABCers, the revelation of the car-wreck prong of the UNC tire fire is now lost in the smoking nuclear crater that was the Miami athletic department. And maybe even Gregg Doyel will acknowledge UNC is no longer the turd in the college football punchbowl. But I will say this: Yahoo Sports has become the 21st century sports equivalent of the old adage about 60 Minutes – just like you didn’t want to see 60 Minutes show up at your door in the 80s, you don’t want Yahoo Sports to show up on your campus today. Or as ESPN’s Ryan McGee tweeted, two people you don’t want to see in your town: Jim Cantore and Charles Robinson.

Aaron Schoonmaker (WRALSportsFan)
UNC fans, supporters question coaching change, seek answers

In the weeks since University of North Carolina Chancellor Holden Thorp unexpectedly fired head football coach Butch Davis a week before the start of fall practice, many fans and supporters of the university are still asking ‘why?’

On Tuesday, alumnus E. Vernon F. Glenn became the latest to file a public records request seeking communications between Thorp and the UNC Board of Trustees, President Tom Ross, Director of Athletics Dick Baddour and anyone not employed by the university.

Glenn, a member of the Class of 1972, seeks Thorp’s calendars, schedules and travel records from June 20-July 28 as well as memos, notes, reports, letters, emails and text messages dating back to June 20. It further seeks all communications regarding Davis’ employment standing and NCAA penalties.

“This is something that is on the minds of a lot of us,” Glenn said. “Why? Has he discussed this anywhere where it was documented?”

Request for Thorp’s communications

AP
Davis’ Abrupt Dismissal Leads To Tension At UNC

North Carolina’s firing of Butch Davis just before preseason camp has divided football fans, faculty members and alumni here.

For some, Davis’ dismissal amid an NCAA investigation into improper benefits and academic misconduct should’ve happened long ago. Others say Davis should’ve stayed because he wasn’t tied to a violation and worry the move could set the program back years.

It’s created yet another distraction for the Tar Heels this fall.

“I’m sure people are mad because we were pretty mad,” linebacker Kevin Reddick said. “You can’t sit there and worry about what happened even though we were sad at the time. Now we’ve got to move on and try to make ourselves better each day in practice. That’s how we’ve got to look at it because we’ve still got to win games.”

Lewis Margolis (Inside Higher Ed)
Drop the Ball

In the face of a growing tsunami of moral and legal failings by National Collegiate Athletic Association Division I football and basketball programs, more than 50 university presidents recently concluded a retreat to discuss strategies to attempt to gain control over the athletic behemoth. Here’s a suggestion that would put an end to the scandals: abolish Division I football and basketball altogether, because they are hopelessly and irreparably corrupted by billion dollar television contracts and multimillion-dollar endorsement deals.

The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill — bemoaning the loss of its 50-year run of virtuous, intercollegiate sports management — is just the latest to join the cohort of universities enmeshed in athletic scandals. For the past year UNC has been dealing with players who accepted financial benefits from supporters and agents, a former coach who allegedly received compensation from an agent, and a tutor who provided impermissible services, just to name a few of its failings, and is now furiously preparing its response to a 42-page Notice of Allegations from the NCAA. In the midst of fund-raising for the $70 million expansion of its football stadium, the UNC development office and marketing department are surely paying their staffs overtime to assure donors that they are not wasting their money.

OldMacDonald (StateFansNation)
Accident report prong?

MIAMI FALLOUT

Charles Robinson, Yahoo! Sports
Renegade Miami football booster spells out illicit benefits to players

A University of Miami booster, incarcerated for his role in a $930 million Ponzi scheme, has told Yahoo! Sports he provided thousands of impermissible benefits to at least 72 athletes from 2002 through 2010.

In 100 hours of jailhouse interviews during Yahoo! Sports’ 11-month investigation, Hurricanes booster Nevin Shapiro described a sustained, eight-year run of rampant NCAA rule-breaking, some of it with the knowledge or direct participation of at least seven coaches from the Miami football and basketball programs. At a cost that Shapiro estimates in the millions of dollars, he said his benefits to athletes included but were not limited to cash, prostitutes, entertainment in his multimillion-dollar homes and yacht, paid trips to high-end restaurants and nightclubs, jewelry, bounties for on-field play (including bounties for injuring opposing players), travel and, on one occasion, an abortion.

Dan Wetzel, Yahoo! Sports
Why Miami is in trouble

Nevin Shapiro says he was drunk, humiliated and belligerent.

It was Miami’s final home game ever at the Orange Bowl, Nov. 10, 2007. The halftime scoreboard read Virginia 31-0 (en route to a 48-0 embarrassment). Everything Shapiro held dear about the Hurricanes was being stomped on.

As a major booster to the program Shapiro had access to the Orange Bowl press box and that’s where he spotted David Reed, the school’s associate athletic director for compliance. Shapiro felt Reed had been implementing rules that were too stringent, trying to keep boosters and players apart.

To Shapiro, the results of Reed’s efforts were manifesting themselves on the field. A once-powerful program was a competitive disgrace.

Miami investigation allegations
Current or former Miami athletes
Football

• Ray-Ray Armstrong
• Jon Beason
• Travis Benjamin
• Arthur Brown
• James Bryant
• Calais Campbell
• Vernon Carey
• Howard Clark
• Graig Cooper
• Antonio Dixon
• Dyron Dye
• Dedrick Epps
• Kayne Farquharson
• Marcus Forston
• Orlando Franklin
• Vegas Franklin
• Jason Geathers
• Tavares Gooden
• Frank Gore
• Cornelius Green
• Gavin Hardin
• Courtney Harris
• Jacory Harris
• Orien Harris
• Devin Hester
• Aldarius Johnson
• Andre Johnson
• Andrew Johnson
• Charlie Jones
• Carlos Joseph
• William Joseph
• Robert Marve
• Marcus Maxey
• Colin McCarthy
• Jerome McDougle
• Willis McGahee
• Rocky McIntosh
• Eric Moncur
• Brian Monroe
• Tyrone Moss
• Javon Nanton
• JoJo Nicolas
• Adewale Ojomo
• Bryan Pata
• Kenny Phillips
• Randy Phillips
• Anthony Reddick
• Marcus Robinson
• Antrel Rolle
• Darryl Sharpton
• Sam Shields
• Sean Spence
• Sean Taylor
• Vaughn Telemaque
• Santonio Thomas
• Olivier Vernon
• Jonathan Vilma
• Carl Walker
• Vince Wilfork
• Andrew Williams
• D.J. Williams
• Leon Williams
• Willie Williams
• Kellen Winslow Jr.
• Reggie Youngblood

Basketball
• DeQuan Jones

Athletes from other schools
• Bryce Brown
• Orson Charles
• Andre Debose
• Jeffrey Godfrey
• Matt Patchan
• Benard Thomas
• Worrell Williams

Current or former Miami Coaches/Staffers
Football

• Sean Allen
• Aubrey Hill
• Clint Hurtt
• Joe Pannunzio
• Jeff Stoutland
• Ralph Nogueras
• Joey Corey

Basketball
• Frank Haith
• Jake Morton
• Jorge Fernandez

TIM REYNOLDS – ASSOCIATED PRESS
Report: Miami players got gifts

Nevin Shapiro, a former Miami booster who is serving a 20-year prison sentence for masterminding a $930 mil-
lion Ponzi scheme, has told Yahoo! Sports he provided impermissible benefits to 72 of the university’s football players and other athletes between 2002 and 2010.

Shapiro said he gave money, cars, yacht trips, jewelry, televisions and other gifts to a list of players including Vince Wilfork, Jon Beason, Antrel Rolle, Devin Hester, Willis McGahee and the late Sean Taylor.

Shapiro also claimed he paid for nightclub outings, sex parties, restaurant meals and in one case, an abortion for a woman impregnated by a player. One former Miami player, running back Tyrone Moss, told Yahoo! Sports he accepted $1,000 from Shapiro around the time he was entering college.

“Hell yeah, I recruited a lot of kids for Miami,” Shapiro told Yahoo! Sports. “With access to the clubs, access to the strip joints. My house. My boat. We’re talking about high school football players. Not anybody can just get into the clubs or strip joints. Who is going to pay for it and make it happen? That was me.”

AP
Attorney: NCAA Probing If Hurricanes Got Gifts

NCAA investigators visited the University of Miami campus Monday looking into claims that more than a dozen former or current football players received gifts and services from convicted Ponzi schemer Nevin Shapiro, his attorney said.

Shapiro has told the NCAA he provided players with the use of a yacht and other favors, said his attorney, Maria Elena Perez. Shapiro and Perez have been talking with the NCAA about the matter for a couple of months and provided documentation, she said.

AP
As NCAA Probes, Miami Coach Says Mistakes Made

Miami Hurricanes coach Al Golden says some of his player may have made mistakes that prompted an NCAA investigation into convicted Ponzi schemer Nevin Shapiro’s role with the program.

Golden, preparing for his first season with the Hurricanes, said he just became aware of the investigation into allegations that Shapiro gave more than a dozen former or current players gifts and services.

“We’re not going to let this knock us backward,” Golden said Tuesday before a morning practice. “We have great kids on this team to the extent that they may have made a mistake. OK, that’s fine. But that’s also part of growing up. What we have to teach them now is if something did occur, let’s be honest and move forward.”

Jim Young (ACCSportsJournal)
Initial Thoughts On The Miami/Nevin Shapiro Story

If I’m Al Golden I Am Furious

If Al Golden is being completely truthful that he “just found out” about the Shapiro allegations and the NCAA investigation into them well then, I’m stunned. And I feel horribly for him.

(And yes, it goes without saying I feel badly for the current players who didn’t break any NCAA rules and who would likely feel the pain of any potential penalties.)

I’m also left wondering how former Miami AD Kirby Hocutt (he’s now the AD at Texas Tech) could have possibly refrained from sharing this little nugget of info with Golden when Hocutt was interviewing him for the head coaching position.

Akula Wolf (BackingthePack)
That’s Gonna Leave A Mark

Charles Robinson had been teasing a huge story for a while, and somehow this thing managed to go way beyond all expectations. Here are some choice excerpts, but the whole article is worth a read. Nevin Shapiro provided an astounding variety of improper benefits to Miami recruits and players. (If you were wondering, the improprieties began a year after Butch Davis left Coral Gables.)

ESPN Video: The claims against Miami

ESPN Video: Former Miami booster speaks

Ivan Maisel (ESPN)
3-point stance: Miami in deep trouble

1. Miami football is in deep trouble. The story posted Tuesday by Yahoo! investigative reporter Charles Robinson is remarkable for the depth of the reporting and the time invested in learning and corroborating the story of jailed former Hurricane booster Nevin Shapiro. He claims to have given money to Miami players and paid for jewelry, clothing, boat trips, prostitutes — you name it. And he claimed that some coaches knew of the benefits he provided. Yahoo! reports that former Miami players confirmed many of the allegations. I repeat: Miami is in deep trouble.

Mike DeCourcy (The Sporting News)
Miami mess a ‘strict’ failure of leadership

Paul Dee was speaking to reporters on a conference call two years ago almost to the day when he uttered the phrase “strict liability.”

To the few paying close attention to the Memphis basketball infractions case who hadn’t already made up their minds on account of John Calipari’s proximity, that term came as a bit of a jolt.

Essentially, Memphis had the greatest season in its history wiped from the record because the Tigers used a player, Derrick Rose, the NCAA clearinghouse had ruled academically eligible. This seemed odd on the face of it. Memphis president Shirley Raines argued the university had followed guidance provided by the NCAA, but Dee and his committee determined that approval had been in error because the Educational Testing Service invalidated Rose’s SAT score—following the conclusion of his freshman season. “Strict liability,” he said.

Seems almost quaint now, doesn’t it? If placed into the middle of the mess allegedly transpiring with the Miami Hurricanes during Dee’s final years as athletics director at The U, Rose’s situation wouldn’t merit mention. Not salacious enough. Not sleazy enough.

Matt Hayes (The Sporting News )
What the alleged Miami scandal means for current players and coaches

What it means for … Current players named in the report: There are numerous players alleged to have accepted improper benefits from Shapiro. Among the group: Miami QB Jacory Harris and LB Sean Spence; Georgia TE Orson Charles, K-State RB Bryce Brown and LB Arthur Brown and UCF QB Jeff Godfrey.

Miami and other schools with implicated players will have to choose between holding out affected players, or playing them and facing ramifications if they are declared ineligible by the NCAA.

CONFERENCE EXPANSION

RALPHD.RUSSO (AP)
Big East commish reaches out to ACC’s John Swofford

“As stewards of our respective conferences and leaders in the world of higher education and intercollegiate athletics, I believe we can and must be mindful everyone’s best interests and be constructive and not destructive,” Marinatto said. “But we all realize we are competitive and we have different constituencies to serve.

“My primary concern is more global. We need to restore confidence and integrity into the collegiate model and that can only be done if and when we as leaders work together in a constructive manner.”

Joe Ovies
SEC won’t be poaching in North Carolina

When word got out that the SEC had a gentleman’s agreement not expand into existing markets, the state of North Carolina suddenly became prime territory. Could the conference poach the Tar Heels and Blue Devils, which would allow the SEC to snag highly valued brands? Would NC State get a call?

It’s an entertaining mental exercise, but that’s about it. Nothing more, nothing less. Even the Wolfpack, the most intriguing possibility of the trio, isn’t going to ditch a conference it helped build. And the state politics? Yeah, let’s not get into that.

But that won’t stop a subset of NC State fans from wanting to jump ship. Part of the mentality stems from their lack of confidence in commissioner John Swofford. The other stems from their constant quest to one-up their rivals in Chapel Hill. It can be argued both are intertwined. The hardcore believe Swofford is only interested in propping up the North Carolina and Duke rivalry at the expense of everyone else in the ACC. This would be the Wolfpack’s chance to break away and no longer be buried by shades of blue.

About 1.21 Jigawatts

Class of '98, Mechanical Engineer, State fan since arriving on campus and it's been a painful ride ever since. I live by the Law of NC State Fandom, "For every Elation there is an equal and opposite Frustration."

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52 Responses to Wednesday Woolgathering

  1. albunde6 08/17/2011 at 8:41 AM #

    Great post. Ovies last paragraph expressed my feelings exactly. 20 years of putting up with UNX and the ACC. We are the “red headed step child” of this conference. Can’t be any worse in the SEC. If this was my decision, then we would already be gone.

  2. tuckerdorm1983 08/17/2011 at 8:58 AM #

    why was proctor not a champion? what did he do??

  3. steelcity36 08/17/2011 at 9:17 AM #

    Let’s see how long it takes Swofford to condemn what is happening in Miami. Of course this is way worse than anything going on over at the flagship so his comments will be justified.

    On another note, what happened to the pictures of UNC Basketball players on a boat in Wilmington? Isn’t one of the accusations in the Miami investigation access to a private yacht?

  4. VaWolf82 08/17/2011 at 9:30 AM #

    Unfortunately for Doc, just because the Miami scandal will make the media forget about UNC, that doesn’t mean that the NCAA will.

    Ovies has been reading NC State message boards but he reached the wrong conclusion. State fans wanting to move to the SEC has very little to do with getting away from UNC and everything to do with revenue and stability. State is better off at the bottom of the standings in a strong conference than in the middle (at best) of a weak conference.

    Which brings us to the proposed meeting of the bottom half of the BCS. So is the purpose of the meeting “Don’t steal our BE teams” or “How do we keep SEC/B10/P12 from stealing anyone else”?

  5. TruthBKnown Returns 08/17/2011 at 9:36 AM #

    I watched TOB on the 11pm news, and it sounded to me like Proctor was not a champion “in the classroom” more than anything else. Probably wasn’t making the grade. Could it be he did not fare well in a summer school course? Just speculating. He said he’d probably be transferring to a junior college. If not for bad grades, why else would he transfer to a junior college?

    As for Miami’s scandal, I would argue it is NOT as bad as what happened at UNX. Take one of Carolina’s prongs (the impermissible gifts prong) and just make it last MUCH longer (10 years), increase the number of players involved, and change the “gifts” received. It’s just more of the same (well, that and they allegedly received “gifts” of prostitutes!) But basically, it’s just players receiving gifts. It’s not tutors cheating for players. It’s not coaches acting as agent runners. It’s not players switching license tags (also illegal IMO). It’s not Miami’s compliance office ignoring reports of activities that need to be investigated. It’s not cops ignoring alcohol-related single-car accidents.

    Miami’s is worse only in numbers. Carolina’s is worse in that it includes many different types of violations, not just impermissible gifts.

  6. packplantpath 08/17/2011 at 9:43 AM #

    “As for Miami’s scandal, I would argue it is NOT as bad as what happened at UNX.”

    Seriously? I read your explanation, but have to reiterate. Seriously?

  7. PackerInRussia 08/17/2011 at 9:43 AM #

    Why are you guys so obsessed with Miami? ;)

  8. JeremyH 08/17/2011 at 10:13 AM #

    ‘prostitute’ is such an inflammatory word : )

  9. TruthBKnown Returns 08/17/2011 at 10:28 AM #

    “Seriously? I read your explanation, but have to reiterate. Seriously?”

    Seriously. You also have to consider that Miami’s scandal dates back 10 years. How far back does Carolina’s scandal go? 2008? Maybe 2007? And UNX don’t have a booster spilling the beans the way Miami does.

    Miami’s scandal is just more of the same, more athletes involved, but just receiving gifts. Carolina has more and different problems, just fewer athletes exposed for receiving gifts.

  10. Rochester 08/17/2011 at 10:30 AM #

    I think Miami’s situation is worse, and it’s because it’s just so completely over the top. I read the entire Charles Robinson story and was simply stunned. They really ought to get the death penalty. With as much crap as was going on there, there had to be academic issues as well. Those guys spent so much time partying and nailing hookers there couldn’t possibly have been enough time to even cut-and-paste a Swahili paper.

    This Miami case is so bad it might actually have enough legs to start some kind of movement to change college athletics. After reading about it I walked away thinking they should just drop the pretense and start a minor league football league for these guys instead of making them pretend to go to school.

  11. packplantpath 08/17/2011 at 10:41 AM #

    If UNC was committing murder, UM were serial killers who ate babies. There is no comparison here. Rochester has it right. If these allegations are true, you don’t think they also cheated in class? I know we all hate UNC, but still…..

    If all the allegations are true.

  12. TruthBKnown Returns 08/17/2011 at 10:52 AM #

    packplantpath, I think a more appropriate comparison would be to say if Carolina is obese, then Miami is morbidly obese.

    But Carolina also has kidney disease, diabetes and syphilis. Miami just needs to get their stomach stapled.

    I’m not downplaying what went on at Miami. It was bad. Really bad. But it was really just more of the same stuff that Carolina did, and it lasted for 10 years, not just the 2-3 years that we know about with Carolina.

    Part of the reason I say this is because I think (and I admit, this is just my opinion) that Carolina’s issues are much worse and more widespread than we’ll ever know. With Miami, we “conveniently” have a guy spilling the beans about what HE did, himself. With Carolina, all we have is what we’ve been able to figure out WITHOUT an independent investigation. No one is spilling the beans. But what we have learned is there is so much more going on at Carolina than a booster providing impermissible (and in some cases ILLEGAL) benefits.

    Of course, I do suspect there was more going on at Miami, too. But really, at this point it just seems to be a numbers thing. One guy is robbing liquor stores. The other guy is robbing banks. In the end, they are both robbers. One just has a lot more cash stuffed in his mattress at the end of the day.

  13. pack76 08/17/2011 at 10:55 AM #

    Both Miami and UNX have broken the rules significantly and will suffer significant sanctions! They both deserve the death penalty but neither will get it. They’ll get several sanctions with a fine and several years of probation.

  14. Hungwolf 08/17/2011 at 11:10 AM #

    Wonder how many of those football coaches worked for Butch also?

    I don’t know how serious the Miami problems are? I tend to be a skeptic here considering the source is a guy in prison wanting to sell a book. I have no doubt lots of programs would be in trouble if the NCAA went after everyone that picked up a check at a strip club for football or basketball players. This guy also said something about bidding wars for players and SEC schools. After hearing that I question how realible this guy is going to turn out to be.

    Remember ABC on the Evening news reported point shaving in our bball program under V and the personal foul’s idiot turned out to be just a lying moron! So I’m on a wait and see plan, although the Yahoo sports has spent lots of time on this.

  15. Prowling Woofie 08/17/2011 at 11:22 AM #

    Hungwolf – good question about how many of the dirty assistant coaches had ties to BD…

    Although somewhat skeptical also of a convicted felon singing like a canary, after reading the entire article it appears Yahoo did a pretty thorough job of trying to track down and ascertain comments from the accused and related parties, and got enough cooperation to be credible.

    All the stuff may not stick, but the fan blades will be plenty gunked up, I’d say !

    Tried looking up the tainted coaches to see if they had any connection to Butch, and the only one I could connect was Clint Hurtt, who played DL for Butch at Miami. Seems the other coaches mentioned were on Shannon’s staff, post-Butch.

  16. Prowling Woofie 08/17/2011 at 11:23 AM #

    PS – I’m so glad to see “Solja” Winslow hooked up in this ! What a supreme tool…

  17. JasonP 08/17/2011 at 11:24 AM #

    Hungwolf, I understand your point – but there’s bidding wars for track athletes in the SEC, and that sport makes pennies compared to football.

  18. TruthBKnown Returns 08/17/2011 at 11:44 AM #

    Trying to make this an apples-to-apples comparison… I believe the NCAA only prosecutes as far back as four years. Allegations older than that are outside of the statute of limitations, correct?

    Assuming that is true, did the NCAA only look back four years in their investigation of UNX? I’m thinking we only know these ridiculously huge quantities of Miami because someone is spilling the beans, and they are not limiting their “spill” to just the last four years. Maybe someone could check out their last four years to see how it compares to UNX before we assume Miami’s scandal is so much worse than the Holes’ scandal. It could be a lot more comparable if those numbers are compared.

  19. runwiththepack 08/17/2011 at 12:07 PM #

    Joe Ovies: “But since when did fans get profit sharing?” (regarding NCSU potentially joining the SEC and realizing +/- $12,000,000 a year increase for NCSU’s athletic budget)

    Huh? Where did THAT come from, Joe?

    That was a stupid comment. I haven’t read or heard anyone even hint that State fans would put any bills in their own pockets if NCSU goes to the SEC. So, what the hell does THAT mean?

    It means that Ovies wants his listeners to think State fans are stupid. It’s just a snarky thing to say, which he wouldn’t say about any other fan base, except maybe Clemson.

    I’m not sold on seeing the Pack join the SEC, but I’m convinced, however, that doing so is worth careful consideration. And the fact that NCSU hasn’t excelled in sports for many years isn’t very relevant either, which is something that seems to escape Joe.

    The SEC, Joe, would be interested in NCSU for several reasons, especially gaining more access to media markets in the 10th most populous state in the union. Only Florida has a larger population than NC amongst the 9 states with existing SEC members.

    Every athletic department makes no secret of the importance of profit for striving for successful sports teams. But, somehow, the laws of economics don’t apply to NCSU, Joe?

  20. packplantpath 08/17/2011 at 12:13 PM #

    TBK, sorry man, you are getting lost in semantics. What we KNOW about UNC is not as bad as what is alleged about UM. Period. Speculate about what we don’t know all you want, but it is just speculation.

    I’m 99% sure UNC did more than we know about. I’m also 99% certain UM did more than the allegations are. This is one booster. You don’t believe UM had more than 1 that was doing this? You don’t think UNC had boosters doing this too? None of that matters unless somebody spills the beans (Hey, anchorman, want to do an interview?).

    I suspect Mario Williams and Rivers were offered illegal benefits. I suspect they took some. I don’t know any of that for sure, but you are a fool if you don’t think they were offered and naive if you don’t think they accepted some. The allegations, if true, make Miami much worse simply because of the scale of it. Again, if the allegations are true.

    If what we know and what the NCAA knows are generally pretty similar, I think the NCAA thinks Miami is much worse too. If the NCAA knows more, we would have seen it in the NOA UNC received. The NCAA may speculate all they want, but if they don’t have pretty good evidence they won’t do much more.

  21. State Fan 08/17/2011 at 12:26 PM #

    Not to minimize anything about UNC’s scandal, but Miami’s is worse just based on the sleaze factor alone.

  22. Packfan28 08/17/2011 at 12:28 PM #

    The Miami story is at the top of every major sports news outlet in the country. The UNC story barely caused a ripple outside the state.

  23. gotohe11carolina 08/17/2011 at 12:28 PM #

    so if the u and unx get the death penalty will we be forced to sit through another conference championship. or will we be spared by the ncaa for not having enough teams.

  24. Ed89 08/17/2011 at 12:49 PM #

    ^^^^Those guys spent so much time partying and nailing hookers there couldn’t possibly have been enough time to even cut-and-paste a Swahili paper.

    I got a good chuckle from that one.

  25. Prowling Woofie 08/17/2011 at 1:07 PM #

    “Trying to make this an apples-to-apples comparison… I believe the NCAA only prosecutes as far back as four years. Allegations older than that are outside of the statute of limitations, correct?”

    TBKR, I may be mistaken, but I believe I have read that if there is a track record of wrong-doing, the NCAA can extend the statute of limitations beyond the 4 years. So this 8+ year stretch, if validated, could well be used against Miami.

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