Seth Davis & SFN address NC State fans

Dear NC State fans,

Don’t you feel smarter and significantly more special being condescended to by a Duke graduate of the ilk of Seth Davis?

Now that you’ve seen the video once…go back and watch it again with some cynicism and a more discerning eye. Is it me, or does Seth’s comments of our history early in the video seem particularly contrived and even sarcastic?

You know…for such an irrelevant basketball program the media sure does like to talk A LOT about poor old NC State!?!?

I was actually working on a much longer and fact-based response to old Seth and his buddies in the drive-by media…but, I just can’t justify spending my time beating against the wall anymore. Many of my points will come out in future entries just as they have in past entries of the last fifteen years. But for now there is no reason to try to educate ‘first level’ thinkers with second and third level information and analysis.

It just doesn’t work. I don’t even think it can be done. Either one is equipped with the gift of critical thought and complex problem solving; or they have to have those skills fostered and nurtured through challenges and experiences. If one doesn’t innately possess an ability to analyze issues, then sitting in front of a television camera &/or writing about sports for a career ain’t the place to figure it out.

I look at it like this — we have a group of lawyers, engineers, statisticians, bankers and other professionals that make up the volunteer author team at SFN. As a hobby, we’ve been able to successfully build a ‘media presence’ competing against the good old mainstream media like Seth and others. Over the last few years we’ve been able to generate a decent amount of credibility and following; and we’ve generated well over 25 million pageviews since we launched. That’s pretty good. Pretty successful. And, pretty amazing for a bunch of hacks with no ‘formal’ training who just sit down in front of a keyboard.

So allow me to ask you professionals a question — conversely, could Seth Davis, Gary Parrish, Tim Brando, Mike Patrick or most any other of these national sports guys turn the table on you and so easily walk into your profession and claim such success with no real experience? Could one of these guys underwrite a loan? try a legal case? spec requirements for building? perform surgery? sell a medical device? treat a sick animal? run a business and meet payroll? obtain a consulting or M&A engagement from a Fortune 500 client? audit a firm or compile financial statements of a business?

Only in this weird world of the ‘media’ do people with so little real world analytical experience and professional credibility get to have their opinions ‘mean’ so much. It is that power that just adds to the disappointment that those with the loudest megaphones wouldn’t try harder to more deeply understand issues on which they opine. But, I digress.

The great news for all of us is that guys like Seth are going to very soon have the opportunity to put his money where his mouth is. Soon, Coach K will be retiring from his beloved Duke University and will ride into the sunset. So, it won’t be too long until we can all read and watch as Seth Davis beats the drum for the need for Duke to hire the great Herb Sendek as their next basketball coach!! That is, of course, unless The Great Sendek won’t have already been snapped up by some other top program out there.

Folks, the very reaction of either laughter or utter disbelieve experienced by EVERYONE who just read that previous statement is exactly why Herb Sendek isn’t the right Head Basketball Coach for any major college basketball program. If he were, don’t you think he would have landed some job better than crappy old NC State over his 18 year coaching career? Seth?

Something tells me that old Herbie will still be available for Duke or UNC or Kentucky or Florida or Michigan State or Texas or Kansas or Maryland or Louisville or Michigan or Syracuse or UConn or Ohio State or UCLA or Indiana or Notre Dame or dozens of other programs when their jobs become available. And, something tells me that not a single one of the programs who have ignored The Great Sendek for the last two decades will suddenly swoop in and choose to hire him.

Isn’t that weird? Not only did NC State provide Herb Sendek the platform to succeed and make over ten million dollars; but NC State retained Herb Sendek after an initial five year period when almost every other school in America would have fired him!! In the HUNDREDS of job changes over the last 15 years, no other top basketball program in the country has chosen to hire Herb Sendek; but they are immune from media criticism while the school that actually did give him a chance gets criticized!?

The thanks we got from Sendek was his CHOOSING to leave after his 10th season when he had very little experienced talent returning and a very weak incoming recruiting class. (What a ‘coincidence’?)

The thanks we continue to get from idiot sports writers is ridiculous criticism that fails to notice that NC State continues to be the most high profile job Herb Sendek has ever been offered. We get criticized for hiring him and keeping him 10 years. No other school gets criticized for NOT HIRING him!

The contradictions in the media’s ‘thought’ processes are dumbfounding. NC State is an awful job that can’t expect to get a great coach; yet, we supposedly had a fantastic coach in Herb Sendek. Get it?

NC State is an awful job that can’t expect to be successful on par with many other programs; yet Herb Sendek was able to find supposed success at NC State for a five year period that he has not been able to replicate at either of his other two coaching stops. That’s odd. Did he have success at State or not? Can State have success or not? Was it Sendek? or was it NC State? Considering that FOUR other NC State Head Basketball Coaches have managed to win a total of 10 ACC Championships in the 43 years before Sendek arrived (more than every school in the ACC except UNC-CH…including Duke)…I ask the same question again — was it Sendek (who never won a title in 10 years)…or was it NC State?

Last one — Herb Sendek is a fantastic coach that NC State should have been very pleased to have; yet, the only other job that Herb Sendek has been able to secure in the open market over the last 18 years is at one of the perpetually worst 20 programs in major college basketball conferences.

Don’t you understand the logic? The sports writers sure seem to! …which is exactly why they are sports writers.

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73 Responses to Seth Davis & SFN address NC State fans

  1. ncsukyle 02/11/2011 at 5:19 PM #

    What did that video have to do with anything? It seems that the logic was “Duke and Carolina are playing tonight so since they’re close to NC State let’s take a shot at them.” Someone said smug earlier and I think that’s the best way to describe it, smug and intimidating. Why can’t we see a PSA run about this kind of bullying?

  2. Wolfy__79 02/11/2011 at 5:30 PM #

    i ask them to keep pouring it on!! nc state has been our own worst enemy.. and noone else! this nonsense will disperse with wins. like it or not we have cut the head of the problem and replaced it with a fully functional one! they will not see that until it’s too late. hole roy will retire.. taking dean’s tree of coaches with him.. k will eventually let go.. maybe in 5+ years.. in the mean time our coach will have the oppurtunity to take the hard lessons and win some acc titles!!! we’re in the short rows 🙂

  3. Lunatic Fringe 02/11/2011 at 6:01 PM #

    I patiently wait for Seth’s diatribe on Indiana fans who ran Mike Davis out of town.

    Mike Davis in 5 years @ Indiana:
    100-65 (60% winning %)
    4 NCAA appearances (3 in a row)
    National Championship Game (in 2002)

    Tom Crean in 3 years @ Indiana:
    28-59 (32% winning %)
    0 NCAA appearances

    FYI – Davis at UAB is 115-48 (71% winning %)

    Face it Indiana…you had a good thing going. (**heavy sarcasm)

    **DISCLAIMER:
    Please note that I am not arguing FOR/AGAINST Indiana’s actions, Mike Davis, or Tom Crean. I am just pointing out that drive-by research employed by Seth Davis could be used in a LOT of situations, but always seems to be NC State that takes the brunt of criticism.

    I guarantee that in each case you would misrepresent the situation and I PROMISE Indiana fans would be screaming about that misrepresentation just as loudly as NC State fans.)

  4. wolfpacker 90 02/11/2011 at 6:41 PM #

    Who is Seth Davis anyway??? He works for CBS sports?? Cannot get on ESPN?? Perhaps he is jealous over that?? All this Herb Sendak talk whether he was driven out or he was a good coach does not help our situation right now. The media and the fans need to let it go, Herb left,resigned to take a lower teer job in a second rated conference and is now 1-10 in the conference right now and probably will be fired after next year. What is Seth Davis? Can he make an accurate prediction or comment?? I mean Herb S had 10 years at state and yes he made the ncaa’s the last five years but so what? That is what a college basketball coach in the acc is supposed to do!! He is supposed to win, get to the dance and try to win the ncaa and maybe a conference title now and then. I mean if you take the number of teams in the country(320/330?) and the amount of bids(64-65-66?) that shows 1/5-1/6 th of all the teams in the ncaa d 1 level get to the dance. I don’t know why everyone is hung up on giving herb s credit for once again doing something he should have been doing period! The reason the fan base was upset or seething over him was he did not get the fact that the rival games are important. I mean we all know we cannot win them but once in a while?? He actually stated in his last year that the unc game is just another game after the home loss to them?? What?? Rival games are just another game??? I am glad he is gone, and the fact that he took a lower teer job just proves he could not hack it in a real league.

    Our next hire needs to be a very good/great one!Man, we need it!

  5. Hungwolf 02/11/2011 at 7:00 PM #

    Dear Mr. Davis,

    If a 1-10 Pac Ten Coach, can take NCSU to the NCAA tournament 5 out of his 10 years, and an even worse coach can get a top ten recruiting class to come to NCSU this year; imagine what a good coach could do?
    Wouldn’t it would be fair to say they would have similar success as our past good coaches like Sloan and Valvano?

    Bottom line: its a great job and a place that has proven even a 1-10 Pac ten coach can have moderate success at, but Mr. Davis the sky is the limit for a good coach!

    Hungwolf

  6. T-Pack 02/11/2011 at 7:45 PM #

    “He seems to be making fun of our aspirations – to imply that we don’t belong among the elite basketball schools anymore. ‘Keep dreaming’ was his last advice.” — travelwolf

    That was my impression, too. Lately I’ve started looking at sports with more of a WWVD perspective … What Would Vince (Lombardi) Do? Imagine Vince as our AD. What would he have done 5 years ago (or even 10 years ago)? WWVD now? If we aren’t in it for excellence, then put away the b-balls and jockstraps and get out the tiddly winks, ’cause what we do and how we play just don’t matter.

  7. mwcric 02/11/2011 at 8:15 PM #

    This is too much. I have my own comments at http://stafoo.blogspot.com/2011/02/why-sportswriters-blanket-assumptions.html. Please feel free to grab some numbers off there and use them in your own arguments with dunderheads.

  8. highstick 02/11/2011 at 8:24 PM #

    Good stats on that last post and excellent analysis..I thought about sharing that with a couple of Tarholes who continue to breath the myth of Sendek…but ….they are too dumb to understand that much data….

  9. swamppack 02/11/2011 at 9:04 PM #

    ^^All these facts to be able to understand the past and present at State (thanks mwcric) and so much of the media chooses to continue to spew thier putrid commentary.

  10. JT 02/11/2011 at 10:38 PM #

    why did I watch that? that’s 2 minutes I’ll never get back.

  11. turfpack 02/11/2011 at 11:28 PM #

    I have a answer to all the media crap and you don’t need any satistics,explanations,or opinions……it’s CALLED WINNING AND THE WATER EVEN TASTE BETTER THEN.

  12. JaxPackMan 02/11/2011 at 11:32 PM #

    I hope Sydney makes it work, but it is clear even with the new recruits the team is not really improved. The players seem talented and smart enough, but they don’t play like they really know what they are doing at times. Is that coaching or player motivation?

    I have no way of judging whether Syd knows what he is doing or not, but if I was a player I couldn’t perform my best with someone yelling and whistling at me on every possession. All-in-all, Syd may have to win the ACC tournament to save his job as I don’t see how the team has shown any real improvement this year.

    Does anyone know what the asst. coaches responsibilities are? I’m just curious if they are being used for other duties besides recruiting.

    NC State has all variables to have a great winning basketball program year after year. My question continues to be what is keeping State from combining those variables into a winner?

    As a State grad and longtime supporter, I am sick and tired of seeing State getting their head handed to them. It is one thing to lose, but to not even be competitive is not acceptable at this level.

    Hopefully, someday sooner than later the Wolfpack will be relevant again in the ACC.

  13. rtpack24 02/12/2011 at 3:42 AM #

    Seth like most of the media does not know if a ball is stuffed or blown up. He has absolutely no credit!

  14. camel77 02/12/2011 at 4:20 AM #

    mwcric. What you failed to mention in your article about Sendeck first five years at NC State was how his hands were tied to get the top recruits because of the higher standards put on players State could recruit because of the Valvano years. Duke and UNC had no resrictions on recruits but State had to go after the ones with higher standards. Even with this he was able to win enough games to get us in post season although just the NIT. Still NC State was playing basketball while most teams season was done. With this little bit of success, he was able to start getting his type of players to fit his style and started going to the NCAA for five years even with key players getting the big head and listening to friends an advisors that they were ready for the NBA. Neither one was a first round draft choice but had they stayed they may would had been one and making the team better the next years. Still he was able to make the NCAA.

    To all you State fans out there that Sendeck left with no talent on team, he did have three to commit to State. Two of the three signed LOI in November (Horner and Wagner)and one to just commit and waited to sign his LOI to see what happen with Herb with all the dislike of Herb with State fans. He ended up signing with Georgetown and had an important role in beating State earlier this year. Wagner ask out of his LOI and signed with Florida and started some games for them. The only one to stay was Horner and had an ok career at State. If we hadn’t forced Herb out, I think all these guys would have stayed and continue the trips to the NCAA and Herb would recruit player to play his style to continue his success.

    All the blame cannot go on Fowler for the coach search last time. Herb did have us in the NCAA for five years in a row and this wasn’t good enough with State fans. When you have a coaching change, you lose two years of recruiting because the higher rated player signed in November and start working establing a relationship with the next class. So when you fire the Coack at end of season, he is already several months behind. Even with a high profile coach coming in, it would take time to get his type of player coming to turn things around. It took Dean Smith and Coach K over five years to five years to win constantly. So if a high profile coach comes in, he would be going up against two well established programs. You all are right in that any coach worth anythind should welcome the challenge but it will take longer than five years.

  15. Pack1998 02/12/2011 at 9:34 AM #

    This is AWESOME, I love it . . . Seth Davis, a Duke Grad, on the night of the UNC – Duke game, decides to talk about NC State . . . seriously? Thank you Seth Davis for not caring.

  16. VaWolf82 02/12/2011 at 10:09 AM #

    mwcric. What you failed to mention in your article about Sendeck first five years at NC State was how his hands were tied to get the top recruits because of the higher standards put on players State could recruit because of the Valvano years.

    The restrictions were gone by the time Sendeck was hired.

  17. MP 02/12/2011 at 11:02 AM #

    Whatever. Seth Davis is a pompous puke. Just in case there are any State fans out there who buy into this condescending horsesh**…

    In 1985, Villanova won the NCAA championship. Most casual observers (who remember this) would think of this as the most obvious example of a team making a ‘miracle’ run to win a title. They achieved one other ‘Elite 8’ under Rollie Massimino, but by the time he retired in 1992, they were likely not considered an established ‘college basketball power’, so to speak.

    Steve Lappas was hired to succeed Massimino as Villanova’s coach in 1992. He coached at Villanova for 9 years, 4 of which resulted in NCAA tournament appearances – two 1st round losses, two 2nd round losses. During that 9-year Lappas era, Big East teams reached the Final Four on 2 occasions: Syracuse in 1996 and UConn in 1999 (National Champion). The conference as a whole was still considered a strong conference during this time.

    So ask yourself this question, Mr. CBS Sports: In the year 2001, 16 years removed from a ‘miracle’ national championship and playing in a conference that would probably be considered a ‘tough neighborhood’ by most people, why should little ‘ol Villanova (private Catholic school, less than 10,000 students) expect to compete at a higher level? What’s so bad about making the NCAA tournament 4 out of 9 years under Steve Lappas? Well see, it doesn’t matter what you or anyone else thinks, you puke. It matters what Villanova’s leadership and fans think.

    Steve Lappas left on his own after it became clear that support for him was wavering. He went to UMass for four years, struggled to a sub-500 record, and was let go. He now (ironically) works for CBS Sports!

    Jay Wright was hired to succeed Lappas in 2001. Since Wright has been coach at Villanova, other Big East teams have reached the Final Four as follows: Syracuse 2003, UConn 2004 (title), Louisville 2005, Georgetown 2007, and UConn 2009. Obviously, the tough neighborhood just kept getting tougher for little ol’ Villanova. True to their ‘proper place’, they went to the NIT the first 3 years of the Wright era. But then something happened… six consecutive NCAA tournament appearances. And those include: 1 Final Four (2009), 1 Elite Eight, and 2 Sweet Sixteens.

    Hmmmm…… Villanova didn’t just ‘stay in their proper place’ did they? Maybe that 1985 title wasn’t really all that long ago after all… Maybe not just a ‘miracle’…. Maybe CBS Sports is going to have to keep an eye on these guys, along with their favorite (UConn, Georgetown, Syracuse, UNC, Duke, etc.) programs….

    Seth Davis can suck it.

  18. mak4dpak 02/12/2011 at 11:47 AM #

    Let the search begin, its time to show those pesimistic a–holes that we can and will succeed, and even against our triangle neighbors. Just have to make sure we take our time, and hire someone who has an impressive record, and has shown he can accept the challenge of coaching in the ACC. Again, I still cast my vote for Randy Bennett, and his record at St. Marys. Very impressive, and leading the WCC conference, as well as one of the tops in the nation in offensive production. I have watched them play, and they know the proper fundamentals of offense, and defense. Any ???s, check him out on the internet.

  19. Sweet jumper 02/12/2011 at 12:40 PM #

    camel77, Horner, Werner and Davis signed L0I’s with State/HWSNBN. AD Fowler gave these three the option of honoring their LOI’s or signing with another school. Horner honored his LOI and played 4years for Sid. Werner opted out and went to UF(role player for 4 years/NCAA championship as freshman). Davis opted out and went to Seton Hall(Not very good, injuries, heard nothing of him after freshman year). Chris Wright was a junior verbal committment to State/HWSBN. He reopened his recruitment when HWSNBN left and was recruited by Sid during his senior year of high school(Sid’s first year). He signed his LOI with Georgetown on national signing day. State was in the running for him until the last day. Some say Sid did not offer Chris Warren(star at Mississippi) because he was sure Wright would come. When Wright signed with Georgetown and Warren with Ole Miss, Sid signed Javi–and the rest is history.

  20. RTPMedic 02/12/2011 at 1:00 PM #

    Seth Davis…what a tool.

  21. Gene 02/12/2011 at 2:28 PM #

    “Tradition doesn’t go away. ”

    Duke Football

    The 1942 Rose Bowl was played in Durham, because the Blue Devil’s were playing Oregon (or Org. St. can’t remember which Oregon school it was) and because of fears of a Japanese attack on the west coast – this three weeks after Pearl Harbor – they played it Durham.

    Wallace Wade had Duke playing for several national titles, though they never won. Even after Wade retired, Duke was still one of the top schools in the ACC and the only North Carolina school to ever play in a “New Years” Day Bowl game (i.e. one of the big ones, which were traditionally the only ones played on New Years), the Cotton Bowl in the 1950’s, until Wake Forest won the ACC title a few years ago.

    Let it sink in. Marinate.

    And look at the Blue Devil’s football program for the last 40 years.

    We are to basketball, what the Blue Devils were to football, when Spurrier took over.

    We just have made some kind of actual commitment to keeping up with other programs in terms of facilities, which Duke never did with football.

    This may keep us from being a carbon copy of Blue Devil’s football.

    If we can find the right coach of course, we would have the resources to hopefully retain him.

    We are headed in the direction of Duke football though.

  22. eas 02/12/2011 at 5:00 PM #

    This BS about coaches not wanting to go up against UNC and Duke is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. I would love to ask Davis or any other idiot in the media this simple question.

    “If NCSU is not a good job because of the UNC/ Duke competition than why did you take a job a CBS Seth (any other sleeze reporter name will work)? If you follow your own theory Seth, than you should have taken a local news job rather than compete with the other big networks/ names! Why didn’t you? Because you are no different than anyone else who strives for success. Coaches want to beat the best just like the media wants to compete against the best.” Absolutely absurd Seth! You are doing the same thing as what you say coaches are scared of at NCSU!

  23. packalum44 02/13/2011 at 11:03 PM #

    Folks can compare State basketball to other programs etc…but there really is no GOOD comparison. History aside, State is a good job – which to clarify what I believe to be a “good” job, I think a school that has the tools in place to compete for championships. You can win championships here. You can’t say that about Duke football. You can still say it here about basketball.

    I won’t ever forget meeting Randy Woodson for the first time at a cocktail reception – one thing I told him was that he just inherited a sleeping giant. His eyes lit up and he smiled, giving the slightest nod as if to say, “I know”. Part of that slumber is our basketball program. We have nowhere to go but up.

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