Stat of the Day – 51 point differential in 80 minutes

The numbers at the bottom of this entry serve as a statistical look at a broader issue that partly entails the need for our coach staff to work to push the right buttons at the right time with the right combination of players. Unfortunately, some of you are going to think that this entry is about ‘Trevor Ferguson’. It genuinely is NOT designed to be about ‘Fergie’.

Additionally, we fully recognize that Ferguson’s minutes have been distributed very closely with minutes for Javi Gonzalez and Dennis Horner this season. But, Horner – and other players who have statistically struggled in our first two games – proved during last season that they have the ability to make significantly positive impacts in real games and not just practice. Conversely, Ferguson does not have that track record upon which to rely as he saw his playing time deteriorate to nothing last season even with the opportunity to take the reigns at point guard when Atsur was injured.

Again, the point of these numbers are not designed to call out Ferguson; the point is to use some FACTS to discuss the optimal distribution of the limited minutes that exist for this basketball team.

Therefore, it is probably time for Coach Lowe to re-assess his evolving substitution pattern. Perhaps the proportional difference between a minute of playing time in a 40 minute college game and a 48 minute NBA game is much larger than it looks on paper? BJD made an excellent point about the substitution rotation in the previous entry when he said:

The problem with Lowe’s rotation is that it seems like a true “wave” pattern. Logically, the 6th and 7th men should get more time than the other reserves, but that isn’t really happening.

Some have speculated that Coach Lowe has created his current substitution pattern with Ferguson essentially ‘holding/playing’ the minutes set aside for Marques Johnson once the transfer from Tennessee becomes eligible in December. It sounds good; but, I have no idea if that is actually going to be the case.

As we wait to see the potential impact of Marques Johnson on this team, I would advocate Dennis Horner absorbing some of Ferguson’s minutes to help us achieve a little more continuity and chemistry with the rest of the guys on the court. Even though Horner seems to be struggling a little to this point of the season, he proved an ability to contribute last season. His physical stature (height and weight) along with his ability to get shots off – even creating some of his own – make him a candidate to have the opportunity to step up some.

As was stated in the previous entry – What is the point of playing 10 men if the players don’t play hard enough to get tired when they are out there? Hell, you could play your 7 or 8 best players and have a much better opportunity of winning games if you aren’t pressing and playing a high pressure defense.

After reading this entry, the following is a quick statistical extract through the first two games of the season.

Scoring with Trevor Ferguson playing 22 minutes:
NC State 19 (0.86 points per minute)
Opponents 36 (1.64 points per minute)
Difference -17

Scoring with Trevor Ferguson not playing 58 minutes:
NC State 110 (1.90 points per minute)
Opponents 76 (1.31 points per minute)
Difference +34

NET DIFFERENCE = 51 POINTS IN 80 MINUTES THROUGH TWO GAMES

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07-08 Basketball Stat of the Day

54 Responses to Stat of the Day – 51 point differential in 80 minutes

  1. brickman 11/19/2007 at 11:16 AM #

    Mr o; it is a very big deal to put in ben with horner/trev/havi. This is all on coach . WHEN YOUR 2 OR 3 BEST PLAYER IS ONLY GETTING 14MINS PER. GAME. THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH THAT . THEN TO PUT HIM IN WITH THAT LINEUP IS A JOKE ! SO LETS PUT THE BLAME WHERE IT BELONGS ON COACH!!!! Ben played fine in second half with the better players he just missed 3 shots .They were good shots they just did not go down. Our DEF sucked !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! costner got burnt more than a marshmallow !!!!

  2. LRM 11/19/2007 at 11:17 AM #

    The implication is that Ben’s attitude has kept him on the bench.

    As far as I can tell not only is our defense NOT creating fast break opportunities, but when it does, Degand outruns the break, a case where his speed is a liability.

    Plain and simple, this is the team that finished 5-11 in the ACC last year rather than the team that made the tourney run.

  3. PamlicoPack 11/19/2007 at 11:18 AM #

    Ahh, the dreaded “chemistry problem” excuse rears its ugly head, as it does anytime you lose to a team that is vastly your inferior in talent. A comment from Grant (I think) was played on 99.9 saying that it is a “tough loss” going down on a circus shot like that. No Gavin, a tough loss is putting New Orleans in a position to win the game with a shot like that. This season, we may gain a new appreciation of Coach K over at Duke for the way he has blended and balanced the minutes and egos of scores of talented players over the years, because, so far, we aren’t doing a very good job of it…

    Are the consistently horrific offensive rebounds allowed numbers just a fact of life with the way this team is constructed, or is that an area that is improveable?

  4. Lunatic Fringe 11/19/2007 at 11:25 AM #

    I am not sure it is dissention rather than learning to play from the bench. I always thought Ben tended to turn it up more during the second half once he had gotten settled into the game sort of like a running back that needs to be given the ball a couple times before they really turn it on.

    It may be a good idea to have him start the second half along with Hickson/Costner (whoever is hot) to see if that helps him get in the flow of the game.

    I also believe Ben had a great chemistry with Engin. The pick-and-roll between those two was fun to watch. There may be an adjustment period for Ben to figure out how to play with the new guards, but I have no doubt in my mind that he will work it out

  5. MatSci94 11/19/2007 at 11:28 AM #

    It seems like we are having some of the same issues that UNC had last year with the large rotation. I would expect it to take a few games to get the rotation and player roles worked out. We all knew coming into this year that it would get crowded in the frontcourt. I also think this is where the loss of Atsur really hurts us. We don’t have anyone to replace his leadership on the floor, and the way he seemed to get everyone around him to play better.

  6. LRM 11/19/2007 at 11:30 AM #

    I wouldn’t call the lack of chemistry an excuse, but rather a very real problem that needs corrected immediately.

    It’s early. The great thing about college basketball is this loss will only matter in March if we’re a bubble team, which means we aren’t very good anyway.

    How we respond over the next few games against some potentially good teams in Orlando and then a tough game in East Lansing next week will say a lot for what we can expect from this team.

  7. Lunatic Fringe 11/19/2007 at 11:34 AM #

    It seems that Ben has been logging more minutes with Horner than with Costner or Hickson. I understand the coaches reasoning since it gives them more flexibility on offense.

    Hickson (inside) Costner (inside/outside)
    Mc (inside) Horner (inside/outside)

    The problem is that you lose the Chemistry between Costner & Mc. In my opinion, we should always have 2 of those 3 guys in the game unless one of the bench players actually gets hot.

  8. packbackr04 11/19/2007 at 11:39 AM #

    I DONT KNOW WHY ALL 3 CANT PLAY TOGETHER?????

    SID SHOULD BE CALLING A HALF COURT PLAY EVERY TIME WE GET INTO A HALF COURT SET… ESPECIALLY WITH THE NEW GUARDS WE HAVE. I THINK JAVI IS A LITTLE BETTER AT SETTING UP PLAYS AND APPEARS TO BE A BETTER PASSER, I SAW NOTHING OUT OF DEGAND LAST NIGHT.

  9. statered 11/19/2007 at 11:40 AM #

    Ben definately needs more time because of his passing AND because his offense comes from indide to medium range which allows for more offensive rebounding when he misses. What this time lacks right now is midrange game – we are either shooting threes or going right at the basket. Fells needs to study tape of Rip Hamilton. Costner right now is trash as far as I am concerned, jacking up way to many threes and not shooting a good percentage. I was glad to see Hickson and Ben in the game together, we need more of that. We need to pound it inside with more than one guy. When Hickson is in he does not need to be the only guy on the low block.

  10. packbackr04 11/19/2007 at 11:44 AM #

    in reading Sid’s post game comments, it sounds like he is gonna stick with his rotation too. he said something like “guys just have to play the minutes they get” well thats true, but when one of your best players (and possibly your best TEAM player) is getting the same minutes that TRevor F-ing Ferguson is getting, then you have problems. The offense should run through Ben, Ben can make JJ all that much better. he facilitates all the off the ball movement when you feed him in the post with his passing ability. i also saw a nice pass that Ben fed Javi, and javi wasnt even ready for it. granted Ben probably should have shot it. Javi has to anticipate those passes from ben.

  11. packgrad93 11/19/2007 at 11:56 AM #

    I’m not reading all the above. I’ll just say stop crying about sub patterns, min played, blah, blah, blah. Sid & the staff see the players everyday in practice, folks here don’t. Also, it’s going to take some time for the staff & the players to get used to the added talent so chemistry will have to be worked out. A good teams needs talent AND chemistry. Grant should have kept his grill shut with the famous four game comment. This team had potential, but right now that’s all.

  12. Redblogger 11/19/2007 at 11:57 AM #

    packbackr04

    We can read just fine, turn off Caps Lock.

  13. packbackr04 11/19/2007 at 12:12 PM #

    sorry red. i use caps for a system at work, and sometimes it gets left on. wasnt meant for emphasis in that specific post.

  14. ShootingGuard 11/19/2007 at 12:29 PM #

    Sid has to take major responsibility for this loss.

    I think SFN’s accurate identification of Fergie’s minutes are a part of it but even larger is that almost whole second unit we have seen out there at the same time Gonzalez+Fergie+Horner+Ben+1 athletic starter.

    I think Sid unwisely fell into “I have to get these bench guys minutes when it is close and meaningful and see what they can do” thinking, and, unfortunately, that has added to the “chemistry” trouble and lack of effectiveness because guys can’t get into a rhythm or get cold sitting on the bench. (We don’t have what UNC had last year, but I think HOF Roy helped us out last year at the RBC doing the same dang thing of changing up the lineups too much and putting the “worst” players on the floor all at the same time and destroying the “best” players consistency.)

    JJ went 12for12 his first time out, gets fans excited with electric dunks, and is the real shot blocker we need to set a great defense. Maybe I am stupid, but he sure looks like a whole ‘nother level of player than we have had in years (if we only had that level of pg or sg!). If guys are really whining about getting their shots after you continue to feed a beast who goes 12for12, then the whiners can sit right on the bench in the doghouse and forget about any minutes—because that’s just stupid loser talk and a sure fire way to keep losing games we shouldn’t.

    As it is, Sid needs to (1) rotate JJ, BC, & Ben at the 4 & 5 (2) use proven Horner to spell Grant & Fells on the wing, and (3) use the top 2 of our 3 pg’s at the wing. Play your best, proven guys, get in a rhythm, and win the dang game before you start playing around with the other guys who need to prove themselves. That’s an 8 man rotation and all you need to manage egos and win big as evidenced by Dean & K for years. Tracy is a freshman and can get his minutes when our frontcourt is in deep foul trouble (vs Hansborough for sure) or late in games. Fergie & # 3 pg can do the same.

    If our pg situation becomes a liability, then say the hell with it and rotate an Iron 6 of the best we have with JJ, BC, & Ben + Horner, Grant, & Fells and put Horner or Grant out at the top of a match-up zone for defense…go for broke with Fells handling the ball…and tell John Wall and every other top flight pg in the nation that the first to commit has a starting job waiting…

  15. zahadum 11/19/2007 at 12:35 PM #

    My thoughts on the game; like everyone else, no idea what’s up with McCauley. Can see him not starting, but can’t understand his not getting at least 20 minutes. We were even speculating last night that maybe he went to Coach Lowe and said he’d sacrifice some minutes in early games to help JJ get off, if he was assured that he get minutes in conference play. But that seems awfully far fetched.

    I’ve said previously that rebounding was as big of a concern for me as point guard play. Haven’t seen anything to change that belief.

    As far as PG goes, so far I much prefer Farnold. Javi shows promise and makes some good passes, but for now he’s not nearly strong enough with the ball. A good pressing team would eat him up at this point.

    Costner was definitely off last night. But we also are not getting him the ball where he can do anything good with it.

    Don’t know what game the stat guys were watching, but Hickson definitely had more than 3 blocks.

  16. Mr O 11/19/2007 at 1:05 PM #

    The problem last night is that it didn’t matter who played with Degand, JJ and Grant. Costner, McCauley, Horner and Fells look lost on the court and they need to get their heads out of their asses.

    Also, we play 4 games in 7 days starting on Thursday. Fells played 31 minutes last night, so somebody has to play some time at shooting guard. There is no other shooting guard on the roster, but Ferguson. Somebody has to play time at the 2 other than Fells this week.

    Costner had more TOs(four) than FGs last night. He also only had four rebounds. McCauley and Horner might as well have not dressed out last night.

  17. burnbarn 11/19/2007 at 1:09 PM #

    I agree JJ had more than 3 also.. I doubt i will watch the game again to confirm.

  18. JimValvano 11/19/2007 at 1:10 PM #

    If I were the coach…my line-up would look like this:

    PG-Degand
    SG-Grant
    SF-Horner
    PF-McCauley
    C-Hickson

    6th-Costner
    7th-Fells
    8th-Gonzalez
    9th-Smith
    10th-Ferguson

    At the point guard position there are aspects of both players games that need work (decision making), but to be more than honest…from what I’ve seen so far…neither of the two are ACC caliber.

    At shooting guard Fells has underachieved. Fells has underachieved his whole career. He is one of the most talented players on the team, but until he steps up I let Grant move to the off guard spot in the starting line-up.

    With Grant moving to shooting guard we will need someone to play small forward. I wish it were Costner, but he looks the Sta-Puft Marshmallow Man. He’s either on the rag and retaining water or he’s gained too much weight. If he could drop the weight he gained in the offseason plus the five pounds he was too heavy last year. I would put him at the three as I’m sure his performance will be much better and he’ll have the energy to hustle. Until then…I give his starting job to Horner. Horner is fit and hustles and has just as sweet of a shot as Costner (if not better). I think that all Horner needs is playing time to help his confidence which will translate into better play.

    Since Costner is about 20 pounds overweight…he’s a power forward. The problem is…McCauley is the better player. What?!? Yes, McCauley is the better player. Ben is unselfish. Ben doesn’t care who is the star of the game. He hustles. And most importantly…he and Grant are the true emotional leaders of our team. McCauley provides an energy for us that Costner stores in the spare tire he’s developed around his waist. Therefore, I start McCauley and back him up with the Sta-Puft Marshmallow Man while keeping an eye on Tracy Smith to see if he wants to steal minutes from Costner.

    The center position will be held down by Hickson…for obvious reasons. He doesn’t belong playing college hoops. He should’ve been able to go straight to The League. Backing him up will be Tracy Smith and McCauley…if we can find a chance to take Hickson outta the game. Hickson looks great thusfar, but if I were the coaching staff I try and work with him a little on understanding double and triple teams and the best ways to attack them. Besides that…he’s an All Conference player as a freshman and could possibly be second or third team All American.

    The players on the bench are there due to lack of talent or lack of effort or lack of experience. I would give Costner and Fells every opportunity to earn their minutes back. Gonzalez and Degand would get somewhat equal minutes…maybe I’d start Degand but finish the game with Gonzalez whom seems to be a little bit of a cooler head than Degand. Tracy Smith just needs a little playing time in order to adjust to the higher level of competition. For now…I try to find him between 8 to 12 minutes a game, but out of the big men…he’d be the first to lose minutes (unfortunately…not much choice). That leaves us with Ferguson. He’s the guy that has the lack of talent. I don’t think its an effort issue with him…he’s just not as quick or as strong as his competition. His minutes would be limited in the same way as Smith’s…spot duty while someone is in foul trouble or if someone is sick or injured. I would find him between 2 and 5 minutes a game as things are right now, but if Fells steps up his game Fergie could find himself not even needing to wear a jersey under his warm-ups.

    With all that said…I hope Coach Lowe went into the locker room last night and told the guys to not bother getting undressed to take a shower. I hope he didn’t even give them a post game speech and just told them he’d be out on the court waiting on them to get on the baseline.

  19. JimValvano 11/19/2007 at 1:19 PM #

    The other thing I want everyone to remember is that it is a long season. There is a lot of teaching to be done. We just played our second game. Coach Lowe should keep the ten man rotation and see what he’s got. Figure out how each player handles each situation. It would be idiotic to cut the rotation to eight players (at this point in the season) and limit your knowledge of your team and limit the playing experience from the players you might have to lean on due to injury later in the season. As the ACC schedule approaches I think you’ll see Coach Lowe start to trim minutes away from the players who don’t perform. By the second half of the conference schedule you’ll see us playing with a mostly eight man rotation.

    There’s a lot of mental work going on right now. All of these games make up what we call a SEASON. It is November. The ACC tournament starts March 13…there is a lot of time there to work on preparing this team for the NCAA tournament.

  20. packbackr04 11/19/2007 at 1:28 PM #

    im with shooting. play your 8 best players thats it. coach k does this every yr. with 11 mcd’s AA’s on his team… win games and dont worry about whos bitching for PT. i am worried for the season if Ben doesnt play over 20 mintes on thursday night. we can not afford for him to ride the pine. worst in game coaching i have seen in a very very long time. and again, how can you go from having one of the best half court offenses in the ACC last year, to not even calling half court plays? we just run n gun like we are team full of AND1 players? im waiting for our announcers to start yelling HOT SAUCE and SPIDAH!!! when we score.

  21. JimValvano 11/19/2007 at 1:35 PM #

    IT’S A LEARNING EXPERIENCE!!! Coach Lowe might have just let the guys play the game the way they wanted to play…so that after the game he could say, “See guys…your playground, pick-up game bullshit doesn’t work with officials and other guys that are playing for more than community braggin’ rights. It’s time to come together as a team and let me show you how to WIN.”

    Maybe that’s part of the reason he didn’t call half-court sets.

  22. packbackr04 11/19/2007 at 1:41 PM #

    i hope your right jimv. but it would make more sense to me to practice calling your half-court sets with a UNO player guarding you and not Ty Lawson. these guards are young and i would have thought Sid would start out the season calling a play EVERY time down the court. then slowly give them more and more freedom to operate as the season goes along and as the team and they as players progress. I did not expect sid to just throw them on the court and say “have at it” to prove a point… i could be wrong…you are right though, it is a long season. lets give em a chance to turn it around, but it looked bad last night

  23. JimValvano 11/19/2007 at 1:42 PM #

    yes…yes it did. Looked horrible.

  24. burnbarn 11/19/2007 at 1:55 PM #

    I think TOB did the same thing in the Louisville game this year..

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