Coaching Carousel Summary

I started wondering how the latest turns of the coaching carousel had effected salaries. While State is not shopping for a new coach this year (Thank God!), these new salaries will eventually impact State. How soon the impact hits will depend on average coaching salaries and the level of success State sees on the field/court.

For example, SIU raised Chris Lowery’s salary from $255k to $750k. In Wisconsion, they are wondering how much Bo Ryan’s success and the going rate for successful coaches is going to cost them. Here is their rundown on the top Big 10 coaching salaries:

– Tubby Smith: $1.75M at Minn
– John Beilen: $1.3M at Michigan
– Todd Lickliter: $1.2M at Iowa
– Thad Matta $1.75M at OSU
– Tom Izzo: $1.736M at Mich State
– Kelvin Sampson: $1.5M at Indiana

IIUC, these are the guaranteed figures and you can be sure most include incentives beyond this.

I was going to try and create some type of list of coaching moves and their new salaries from the various on-line article, but found a pretty neat little table from Louisville with the various moves through last Sunday. (Isn’t it nice when you find out that someone else has already invented the wheel that you were going to construct from scratch?)

Here are a few more new salaries that I found:

- Jeff Bzdelik, Colorada: $750k
– Stan Heath, South Florida, up to $4.275M over five years
– Jim Boylen, Utah: $575k
– Bob Huggins; WVU $800K (first year); $5M over five years

It would be about as silly to complain about salaries going up in a multi-billion dollar industry as it would to complain about the sun rising in the east. No, my point was simply to document what coaches around the country are getting….and remind everyone of how coaches are paid in general and specifically at NC State.

Everyone knows that a coaching contract is really only valid for two things: next year’s salary and the buyout terms. I hope that State is not in the market for a new revenue coach anytime soon….but it’s always good to keep an eye on the market value of something that you will need eventually.

About VaWolf82

Engineer living in Central Va. and senior curmudgeon amongst SFN authors One wife, two kids, one dog, four vehicles on insurance, and four phones on cell plan...looking forward to empty nest status. Graduated 1982

06-07 Basketball General NCS Basketball

61 Responses to Coaching Carousel Summary

  1. MrPlywood 04/09/2007 at 8:09 PM #

    I posted my term for this phenomenon in the previous coaching merry-go-round thread, but I don’t think it was ever seen. So here goes again: “Trickle-Up Coach-onomics” :)

  2. Trout 04/10/2007 at 7:44 AM #

    Not salary related, but interesting: in 2001, WVU’s Gale Catlett resigned after many years as head coach. WVU first offered the job to Bob Huggins – he either turned them down or the WVU President nixed the deal in the 11th hour (conflicting stories, depending upon where it comes from). WVU then offered the job to Bowling Green’s Dan Dakich. He took the job for about 4 days, then pulled a BobbyCremins/Gregg Marshall/Dana Altman, changed his mind and went back to Bowling Green. That opened the door for Richmond’s John Beilien to get the WVU position.

    Flash forward to 2007: Dan Dakich resigns under pressure from Bowling Green. Beilien leaves WVU to take the Michigan job. Huggins comes “home” to WVU to replace Beilien. Dakich’s story is a little like Bobby Cremins – his program at Bowling Green was never the same after he pulled the swith-a-roo with WVU.

    My summary from VaWolf’s salary information: we are going to have to raise Sidney’s salary to remain competitive.

  3. VaWolf82 04/10/2007 at 8:08 AM #

    Rereading the entry this morning, I didn’t do a good job pointing out that Sid’s contract has much less guaranteed money than most of the high-profile jobs filled this off-season and even TOB’s contract. I am not saying that Sid’s contract should be completely redone this year….but it’s not something that can be completely ignored either.

    A coach’s contract is really only meaningful for the next year. It sounds like Barry Alvarez at Wisconsin understands this and rewards successful seasons with improved contracts. I hope that LF has ample reasons and the required good sense to do this in the near future at State.

  4. WolftownVA81 04/10/2007 at 8:14 AM #

    Like everyone else, a coaches performance should be evaluated yearly. If performance continues to improve, I certainly hope each would receive a raise. If we want to be competitive, we better offer competetive salaries. Sid’s salary does seem to be on the low end. He certainly didn’t disappoint this year and if next year is the same, I’d say he deserves a hefty pay raise.

  5. Jimmy V 04/10/2007 at 8:20 AM #

    Beilein can coach. I tell you. After having a somewhat robotic personality in Herb Sendek, I honestly don’t think State fans would have wanted John Beilein, a similar personality. But Beilein was and is a better coach than Herb Sendek. Now I didn’t want Steve Lavin at all. That would have been, IMO, a bad hire. But Beilein has risen in the coaching ranks from Richmond to a better job at West Virginia to a now even better job at Michigan. I suspect he’ll do well at Michigan. I think Michigan will make some deep runs in the NCAA Tournament in the next 5-10 years. I think Beilein is a better coach than Bob Huggins, but only time will tell. West Virginia is not an ideal place to coach college basketball. For Beilein to do what he did there was impressive. I think he has the knowhow to turn it around at Michigan.

  6. choppack1 04/10/2007 at 8:29 AM #

    Jmmy V – The key w/ Huggins is the kids that he brings in.

    He has, as they say in Animal House – a morally casual attitude – when it comes to his kids. He’ll recruit a team load of kids no one else but Memphis will touch. They’ll be tough and talented.

    Huggy Bear will do just fine there.

  7. noah 04/10/2007 at 8:30 AM #

    Kelvin Sampson makes $1.5 million?? Whew…that’s gotta be the most overpaid coach in the country.

    And I agree that Beilein is a great coach. I don’t think State fans would have cared about the personality if we had won.

  8. Jimmy V 04/10/2007 at 8:30 AM #

    I think the basketball coach at State should receive moderate raises yearly. Now if he has been at State for four to five years and has made it to three or four NCAAs, won an ACC Tournament, been to a Final Eight, and has been consistently successful, then the school should consider giving him a sizable raise. My point: Don’t give out hefty raises so easily. What if the coach is a bust? At what point do you give out a big, big raise? That’s hard to say. I think it should be after a big season: 25+ wins, winning the ACC Tournament or finishing first in the regular season, making it to a Final Eight or Final Four. A salary should grow as a coach achieves big things on the football field or basketball court. That just makes sense. You don’t want to hand out a huge contract after just one or two years and then be backpedaling later. Look at UVA and Pete Gillen or the fat contract they give Al Groh. Now if a coach wins a national title and you want to sign him to a ten year deal, fine. But it’s like Jim Valvano said, “The first contract doesn’t matter. Your performance will make you dispensable or indispensable. If you’re good at what you do, people will take care of you. If you’re not, you’ll be gone.” Read his book.

    Yeah, State has to be competitive with the market, but it’s not smart to give out a big contract until a coach wins really big.

  9. Trout 04/10/2007 at 8:32 AM #

    Better coach = Beilien. Better recruiter = Huggins, IMO. Will be interesting to see which side does better at WVU. Remember however, that Huggins is inheriting a situation that is much, much better than the one Beilien inherited at WVU back in ’01.

    In the ACC, my guess is that Sidney’s salary is above Miami’s Haith and VT’s Greenburg, on par with Clemson’s Purnell, FSU’s Hamilton, UVA’s Laitao and BC’s Skinner, and below everyone else (K, Roy, Williams, Prosser, Hewitt)

  10. skywalkerdt 04/10/2007 at 8:37 AM #

    One very notable salary missing, Billy Clyde Gillispie is scheduled to receive 2.3 million base with kentucky with total incentives up to another 850k. This deal should make it very interesting to hear Billy Donovan’s new contract terms when they get worked out as Billy G is at UF’s main bball rival, UK

    Good catch. I had BG’s salary in a table that didn’t display properly once converted to HTML. I threw the table away and just linked the article from the Louisville paper. I’ll have to add his salary to the list of other coaches.
    VaWolf82

  11. Jimmy V 04/10/2007 at 8:40 AM #

    I agree, choppack. I think Huggins will do fairly well at West Virginia. If they had gone with someone different, a “no namer,” there would have been a chance the program would have fallen way down from where Beilein took it. Huggins’ teams were tough. He did have a big season, back in ’93, when he took Dean’s national title team to the limit before losing in overtime.

    What were the parallels, for anyone who knows, between Huggins’ situation at Cincinnati and Jim Valvano’s situation at NCSU back in ’90? Or were there any?

    With the coaching carousel, there’s always going to be coaching hires/fires. When teams win, teams lose. It seems like the last two years there have been a lot of coaches fired or resigning to go elsewhere.

    Who’s on the hotseat next year in the ACC? Maybe Frank Haith and Skip Prosser? I hope Wake keeps Prosser a while. He’s been struggling lately and it would be bad to see an upgrade in the coaching spot there.

  12. Trout 04/10/2007 at 8:45 AM #

    ^ I think Prosser is the leading ACC hotseat candidate.

    After that, I think Hewitt and Purnell will feel heat if their teams underperform in relation to expectations. Many will disagree that a Clemson coach that made the NIT finals can be on the hotseat, but if Purnell doesnt make the NCAA tournament next year, after year 5 and with Clemson’s best team in over 15 years, then he would go into year 6 with a warm seat, no doubt.

    There are many rumors in Atlanta that Hewitt is ready to test NBA waters after next season. This upcoming GT team will be his best since the Final 4 team.

  13. choppack1 04/10/2007 at 9:07 AM #

    “What were the parallels, for anyone who knows, between Huggins’ situation at Cincinnati and Jim Valvano’s situation at NCSU back in ‘90? Or were there any?”

    Well, with Huggins, it was more about his lack of personal responsibility. He had a heart attack, then had a DUI coming back from a recruiting visit. I think the school would have stood by him if he didn’t have the DUI.

    Huggins basically got a second chance and blew it. V never really got his second chance. I really believe that V could have been successful and brought good kids to Raleigh…his last team of Corch, Monroe, Howard, Brown and Avie were all pretty good guys.

    Truthfully, I think V’s biggest problem was that he didn’t like recruiting. The man was so charming, but I don’t think he liked the grind that was recruiting. IMHO, that’s why we ended up w/ so many questionable kids. V really could have used one or more assistants who specialized in identifying high character kids. When V had these kids, he did well.

    Noah mentioned V’s last class – w/ Donnie Seale, Craig Tyson, and another big game…I don’t think one of those qualified. There WAS NO REASON FOR V TO HAVE RECRUIT KIDS LIKE THIS. To me, the most baffling part of the V era is why he chose to recruit some of the kids that he did…Not the Washburn’s of the world – everyone wanted them – but the Tevin Binns, David Lees, Brian D’Amico’s, Kenny Drummonds, etc.

  14. noah 04/10/2007 at 9:22 AM #

    Technically, I think V’s last recruiting class was Migjen Bakali.

    His next-to-last recruiting class was Feggins, Thompson and Seale. Wasn’t Gary Mattison supposed to be in it too?

    We never signed Craig Tyson. He committed here. I think he transferred from somewhere in Baltimore to Hagerstown (Monroe’s stomping grounds) and was diagnosed with a learning disability and couldn’t get past admissions. He ended up going to JUCO at Southern Idaho and eventually committed to Arkansas, where he got busted for dealing crack.

    We also had commitments from Derrick Chandler from DeMatha and Poncho Hodges. Neither could get qualified.

    Chandler went to JUCO ended up at Nebraska and was one of the better rebounders and shotblockers in their school’s history. Hodges ended up at Alvin Community College at Colorado and was a solid player. He’s an actor now.

    http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1523482/

  15. choppack1 04/10/2007 at 9:22 AM #

    Trout – I agree that Skip is on the hotseat. The one thing he does have going for him is a big recruit in the bag for next year. His tenure reminds a little bit of Chuck’s. Comes into town -gets some huge recruiting wins, has moderate, but not spectacular success, really generates some excitement around the team, but little to show for it.

  16. RickJ 04/10/2007 at 9:23 AM #

    Our attendance will be something worth watching next year. We averaged around 13,500 at the RBC this past year (picked last in preseason and beaten badly in our 1st four ACC home games). The year before it was something like 14,500 when we started 14 – 2. I have a hunch we are going to see a moderate to heavy increase in preseason season ticket sales next year. It was very slow this year. The RBC holds over 19,000 for basketball – there is a lot of money on the table for increased ticket sales, lifetime right seating, parking & concessions.

    If Lowe can win big here, he can be paid accordingly.

  17. Jimmy V 04/10/2007 at 9:23 AM #

    It’s all speculation, but I think Valvano would have made adjustments had he been allowed to stay. I know books have been written. But I would love to see a renowned sports author write a biography on Jim Valvano. From his birth to his death. Write about the good and the bad. Be fair and even, responsible. But tell the truth.

    I would love to see a book about Jim Valvano. I have the books that have come out in the last some years. One is quotes from Jimmy V and the other is the “The Gifts of JV.”

  18. noah 04/10/2007 at 9:23 AM #

    BTW, I don’t believe that V disliked recruiting at all. We went through a two-year period in 1988 and 1989 where we got visits from everyone, but couldn’t get any commitments. In 1989, our big recruit was supposed to be Doug Edwards. I’m assuming that we lost him at the last second to FSU because he couldn’t get 700 on his SATs.

  19. Dr. BadgerPack 04/10/2007 at 9:26 AM #

    I think the Bo Ryan and Sidney Lowe situations (if you want to call it a “situation”) will be interesting to keep track of. With Bo Ryan, you have a guy who has coached exclusively in Wisconsin since 1977. He loves the area (that would be 1st hand, not speculative) and that could help save a few dollars. With Sidney Lowe, you have the coach who came home to his dream job, which could again save on the bottom line. Of course, if the universities blatantly try to “use” this info, that could blow up right in their faces.

    What it really boils down to are the personal questions to the two: “How much money do I need to be happy/ensure my families well being” and “How much money do I need to feel I am being given the proper amount of respect”. Most everyone can probably agree that the answer to the latter question is what will determine if there is indeed a home team discount, so to speak.

    If handled properly, the respect can take care of itself. Make the coach feel wanted and important before the contract issue gets to where it is fodder for every opinion columnist in a 100 mile radius. Given the fact that Ryan has the extra years under his belt, State might do well to monitor how that plays out and apply what the learn to Sidney’s situation. (Will “IKB” be willing to learn??) It would be nice if both of my schools could not pooch the contracts of their quality coaches.

  20. noah 04/10/2007 at 9:29 AM #

    One other thing…we got a visit from Stanley Roberts iiiin…1988, I think. We were on his short list. We ended up falling off of it because of the events that eventually sparked the movie, “He Got Game.”

    Roberts brother was facing a murder charge in south Carolina. The judge who oversaw the case was a Gamecock and told Roberts that he HAD to commit to USuC or the judge do everything possible to make sure the brother got convicted and did hard time.

    Roberts ended up telling his coach who got the judge busted, USuC was prevented from recruiting him (but not punished, since they weren’t really involved) and Roberts ended up at LSU for a couple of years.

    Roberts was part of the #1 recruiting class in the country. The ONLY player in the five-man class to qualify, however, was Chris Jackson. And Jackson went through his own hell where he signed with Miss. State…but then claimed he didn’t sign and his mother wouldn’t sign the LOI and he wasn’t 18….it was a mess.

  21. choppack1 04/10/2007 at 9:49 AM #

    Noah – We also got a visit from Shaquille O’Neal if memory serves correct. Right?

    Stanley Roberts was actually a better all-around player than Shaq-Fu originally. Then the food, weight and work ethic kicked in.

    Noah – I’d be interested in your thoughts on V’s recruiting style. I’ve always thought he had a fantastic feel for in game coaching and a decent eye for talent, but we seemed to have some odd hauls.

    We always seemed to have these huge recruiting classes w/ a pretty large amount of attrition. This was the 80s and I think the whole game wasn’t as scientific as it is today…and there weren’t as many controls in place.

    JimmyV – There is no doubt in my mind that V could have been successful even w/ the rules Les had faced.

  22. noah 04/10/2007 at 10:40 AM #

    V’s style was to bring in a ton of players, throw them into a pile and let them sort themselves out. If you look at the box scores from Charlie’s ACC site, you’ll see a ton of different lineups as V tried to sort things out.

    Guys like Rodney Butts were getting some starting time. I think we went through every possible combination in 1986 at point guard before we finally settled on Nate McMillan. We had the long drawn-out search for a small forward every year until Bennie Bolton emerged as a solid shooter.

    There were a couple of things going on that led to the attrition. One, we didn’t bring in the best students…so every year, we’d lose some guys to grades. Then there was the playing time issue. You’d have five guys at one position and there weren’t enough minutes to go around.

    And then you had the Jim Valvano vs. Jimmy V dynamic. I heard some players talking about how Valvano wouldn’t be there for them. Ed Martin was the guy running practice and then V would walk in the door for the games. And there were players who felt like V played favorites with the Italian players and they weren’t getting a fair shot.

    The plate tectonics of our program under Valvano weren’t very easy to sort out. Lots of pressure in all places and lots of pieces moving against one another.

    If I may add another metaphor, I think the program grew into a Gordian knot. I’ve sketched out a plan to undo the problems in the past and I won’t bore everyone by going through it again…but you could have done it. It would have been a lot of work and everyone would have had to remain pretty committed…but I think you could have saved the program.

    In the end, Monteith and the BOT decided to play Alexander and just cleave the knot in two. I always like to point out that Alexander didn’t solve the problem…he destroyed it. Those aren’t the same things (much as politicians like to pretend they are).

  23. noah 04/10/2007 at 10:41 AM #

    Oh, and I can’t remember if we got a visit from Shaq or not. That rings a bell somewhere. I know that UNC did. They almost got Kenny Anderson AND Shaq.

    Argh.

  24. Big Worm 04/10/2007 at 10:49 AM #

    “I know that UNC did. They almost got Kenny Anderson AND Shaq.”

    Can you imagine what that tandem could have been capable of?

  25. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 04/10/2007 at 10:55 AM #

    “My point: Don’t give out hefty raises so easily. What if the coach is a bust?”

    There is a mix that has to be found. You don’t want to overspend but if your coach gets taken away by another school (or in NC State’s case the NBA) you will end up spending a lot more for a possible unknown.

    I like to think that most coaches are not in it for money. Though a coach’s desire to earning fair market value should be expected there are many other factors that those guys have to look at. It can’t be who will pay me the most. For example, the ability to play Augusta may weigh in some football coaches mind in addition to cash.

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