Why Does Instant Reply Exist if it Isn’t Used?

Akron

Allow me to save you some time and go ahead and pre-empt some of your comments. Some of you will want to chime in with a testoserone-laden statement that, “you shouldn’t put yourself in that position”…or “never let it come down to the last play”. To be fair, I can’t disagree with you when you make that kind of statement about a game with Akron. So, don’t bother repeating it.

And, please don’t misunderstand my comments in this entry. I am not “blaming the refs” or whining about how we lost since I agree that we shouldn’t be in such a situation with Akron. But, this game cannot pass without us having some comments about this topic.

Agreeing that (in a perfect world) a game with Akron shouldn’t come down to the last play is not an acceptable justification for incompetence by the officials at the game. Isn’t a reviewable spot of the ball in a game-deciding situation EXACTLY the kind of circumstance that has instituted an instant-replay system in college football?

Don’t misunderstand my expectations of the ACC officials who are generally considered to be the worst of the major conferences in America. I would truly NEVER expect college football officials to have the balls and the fortitude to actually over-ruled the play. When the obvious goal and focus of college football is to make the game as short as possible then you can’t expect folks to sit around and spend time doing due diligence.

But, since the officials were so quick to call a touchdown for the Zips then you know that they would have never deemed such a picture as “overwhelming video evidence” to repeal the call. (Oh…wait…unless, of course, the game was NC State @ UNC-CH and they would have had no problem over turning the game changing touchdown).

Was he down?

Even AFTER that picture, and a host of others on the internet, retiring ACC coordinator of football officials Tommy Hunt said that he is satisfied that referees made the correct call on Akron’s game-winning touchdown Saturday against N.C. State. (Link)

I think that it bothers me more that the play wasn’t even reviewed than it does that the play wasn’t overturned.

Update @ 10:25am
Nice comments from the Fayetteville Observer:

But it doesn’t matter whether the knee of Akron running back Dennis Kennedy hit the ground before the ball broke the plane of the end zone or not. If there’s a replay system in effect and a game-deciding score on the final play happens, it SHOULD be reviewed. Otherwise, what’s the point of having such a system?

In other words, don’t leave any doubt in anyone’s mind that you got it right. In that respect, the system failed Saturday, because a lot of people left Carter-Finley Stadium with doubt in their minds.

(2) Greensboro News & Record comments:

'06 Football General

72 Responses to Why Does Instant Reply Exist if it Isn’t Used?

  1. packpigskinfan23 09/11/2006 at 10:10 PM #

    so Wolfpacker4ever what your REALLY saying is that we should be bitching about teh Chancellor and not Fowler himself… cause after all, it is the Chancellor who had to approve a Sendek or even a possible Fowler firing?!

    =)

  2. metrowolf 09/11/2006 at 10:33 PM #

    I’m puzzled about the “we didn’t have that angle” BS about the video. What, they couldn’t look at the freakin’ Jumbotron?

    Oh that’s right! The refs were already off the field. Silly me! La la la!

  3. redfred2 09/11/2006 at 11:17 PM #

    “After the sunglasses and clown shoes incident last year, the Boos & Disturber reported Fowler’s black Crysler having been seen parked outside the Murphy Football Center. When asked what he had to say to Coach Amato, Fowler said it was a routine visit… yada yada yada. Do you think for a minute that it was a routine visit? I don’t and neither did the reporter but that’s all he had to report.�

    Once again there 4ever, I do not doubt the immediate and punctial nature of that all important visit to C Amato’s office, it involved, and was about…
    A P P E A R A N C E S.

  4. highstick 09/11/2006 at 11:28 PM #

    If that was the same ref that screwed up the win in Chapel Hill, I think I recall that he had a “trail of bad calls” even before that. Can someone confirm that is the case as I remember that being said a few days after that game.

  5. Wolfpack4ever 09/11/2006 at 11:41 PM #

    redfred2 Says:

    Once again there 4ever, I do not doubt the immediate and punctial nature of that all important visit to C Amato’s office, it involved, and was about…
    A P P E A R A N C E S.

    redfred2, his job is not to drop in and tell his coaches how to coach, that’s for the experts here on StateFanNation. 😉

    It could have been about appearances. Many loyal State fans are concerned about how anyone associated with the university represents the school. Not a lot different than my concern for how my employees appear to the public — professional or ragtag. What’s your point?

  6. redfred2 09/12/2006 at 12:22 AM #

    ^Wolfpack4ever- I guess you didn’t go back to Vitale thread. I have tried in more subtle ways but here we go again…

    My point is this, the job is to coach and to be damned good at it. My point is that that is what these guys are hired for, not to be the good will ambassadors and the ultimate symbol of NC State University. My point is that these guys are supposed to be developing the kids, who put their trust in them, to a higher competency level year in and year out. Not for appearance sake, not for the sake of their own job security, but for one single reason, the kid’s sake. I do not have much of a complaint about CA with respects to individual development, but the former BB coach, who you also defend to the hilt, I will detest from here on out for that one simple fact. It was supposed to be about the kids, not all about a self serving theory. But that seems all that is important in your mind and the mind of the of the AD you also so adamantly defend. Therefore the hot bothered rush to quell the wardrobe debacle. Just keep up the proper outward appearances. To hell with the rest of it.

    There is a job to be done, it doesn’t always require proper ediquette or bowing down in order to shape public opinion. Fowler needs to expect more, demand more, and not let up until he gets it. I can’t ever see that happening.

    As much as many hate to admit it, this school’s reputation is bluecollar, and in the good ol’ days we absolutely thrived on it. It’s become way too prim and proper for it’s own good now.

  7. vtpackfan 09/12/2006 at 7:42 AM #

    The instant replay system wants to ensure they get every play right, and the teams involved have everything at stake and no qualms about the extended length of games. As a selfish “never could be out there doing it myself” viewer I am torn. I know what it means to all the participants but I can’t stand watching a game that can last as long as a baseball game or a round of golf w’ George H.W. Bush. This rule, BCS computers, and they ovwertime crap have made College Football lesser for doing to much, IMHO.

  8. RickJ 09/12/2006 at 8:06 AM #

    ACC Coordinator of Officials Tommy Hunt:

    “We don’t count on still pictures. They are not dependable…A running picture is much more valuable than a still photo.” Hunt said the officials have the ability to look at a play frame-by-frame if necessary.

    Why would you want to look at a video frame-by-frame if still pictures are not dependable?

  9. Wolfpack4ever 09/12/2006 at 8:35 AM #

    redfred2 Says:

    I can’t ever see that happening.

    Redfred, it is likely that you can never see that happening. Why? Because what you want to see will never be done in the public view. We, you, I and StateFanNation will never know what LF is doing. What ever it is it is being done as it should be done, in private.

  10. redfred2 09/12/2006 at 10:58 AM #

    Wolfpack4ever

    I see you like to pick a certain sentence or phrase to avoid answering the to the total aspect of my posts. I guess what I am saying is that all of the pride and “sunshine’ that you placing all over the athletics department at NCSU was deserved in it’s day. It just isn’t right now, and being blind to the contributing factors isn’t helping anything one bit.

    Back to reality. I take it that the picture is just that, a single still frame. If not it should be fairly easy to tell how the elbow/arm moved in relation to rest of the player’s body. Did it stop moving downward, bounce off the turf, or what? It’s not a TD at the split that photo(?) was taken either way.

  11. Hoosyodaddy81 09/12/2006 at 12:03 PM #

    I don’t know how they can say that “every play is looked at” while the refs call the TD and then hurry off the field…what, was the guy in the booth gonna make the ref’s run back out onto the field? Then they would have looked even more inept than they already do.

  12. redfred2 09/12/2006 at 12:50 PM #

    “more inept” than they do,…..say about right now? I don’t think there’s much of a possibility there.

    It was a close call, you can’t high tail it out of the stadium and then deny that it was ever questionable to begin with.

  13. Wolfpack4ever 09/12/2006 at 6:22 PM #

    packpigskinfan23 Says:

    so Wolfpacker4ever what your REALLY saying is that we should be bitching about teh Chancellor and not Fowler himself… cause after all, it is the Chancellor who had to approve a Sendek or even a possible Fowler firing?!

    I’m afraid so. As I understand it with institutional controls the buck stops with the Chancellor. For all we know and we don’t really know, Fowler might agree with some of what we say here — although I doubt he is for a public lynching. Firing Fowler puts us in no better place than we are now with regard to our desires for the AD to act.

    redfred2 Says:

    “I guess what I am saying is that all of the pride and “sunshine’ that you placing all over the athletics department at NCSU was deserved in it’s day. It just isn’t right now, and being blind to the contributing factors isn’t helping anything one bit.”

    First, I am not “placing pride and sunshine,” I am against public lynching, against blaming LF for everything that happens. I am for holding him accountable and he is responsible for the athletics department like a General is responsible and accountable for the entire army and all it’s actions.

    further: “being blind to the contributing factors” In other words people who don’t agree with you are blind and your interpretation of contributing factors — which by the way I would love to see or read about here and not more opinion that LF is a dufus — is the truth.

    I can guarantee that LF is not going to operate in anyway differently than any Group VP in a major corporation. No public “big-talking”, no public airing of any laundry, every effort to cause success, etc.

    Most of us myself included, are clueleess as to the way the university and athletics department works. I trust that MAF knew what was going on and she could have fired LF and I never heard or read one word about that happening. Now it may have been about to happen but we would never read about it in the paper or on EDSBS.

    redfred and others, I just think we could have more meaningful discussions if we were in the reality of the way it works and doesn’t work at NCSU.

  14. Wolfpack4ever 09/12/2006 at 6:58 PM #

    redfred2 Says:

    “the former BB coach, who you also defend to the hilt”

    You will be hard-pressed to find any of my defending of the coaching job that HS did. I do argue that running HS out on a rail (or anyone for the matter) is the way of NCSU. I speculate on LFs possible part in his ending up at ASU. I suffered and groaned for the last 5 years. I say it is too bad he couldn’t make the adjustment to a style of play that was exciting and fun to watch. But I assert the blame for his being in the postition he was in, is NOT and never was due to LF doing a poor job. All LF did was not publicly crucify HS for failing to win big. Why is that? Herb did the job he was hired to do and when he did that job and did it well, the ante got upped by me, you and most every other WPC member except the ones who knew LF could not fire HS.

    I have a problem roasting LF for that which he had no power to do. Yes, go after the one responsible, the Chancellor, not the AD.

    I don’t like the appearances of the job search conducted by LF. I certainly don’t like the likely story told about those appearances. What I know is that LF is well connected in basketball circles and he “entertained” the idea of hiring several different people, some I could stomach coaching at NCSU. What I know is that all is not as it appears so there is a very distinct possibility that there could have been some serious poker playing going on. LF could not have gone after Sidney Lowe early on — no degree, no college experience, etc. So while we will never know as long as LF is at NCSU or Sidney Lowe is coaching here, what actually went on.

  15. redfred2 09/12/2006 at 7:55 PM #

    Wolfpack4ever

    I think we need to “get a room” as they say. I’d say you and I have probably been occupying a little too much space on SFN lately.

    “I do argue that running HS out on a rail (or anyone for the matter) is the way of NCSU.”

    I am sure as hell not anyone to point out other’s typos, but I think you meant to insert a “not” up there in that statement. You say LF did this, HS did that, and I agree with some of what you’re saying. But I’m talking about a constant, not something that occurred once upon a time and years ago. HS was hired to right the ship. He did that. He was damned glad that the athletics department of NC State University, with it’s ACC and National Championship banners already hanging proudly for every to see, saw fit to give a very young and unproven coach from a small university in Ohio the opportunity to coach in the best basketball conference in the land. If anything HS owed NC State all along in the scenario, but it was never the other way around. Either way, there was never a guarantee of a free ride after a certain amount of time, or a decade long contract involved.

    You are practically admitting that NC State’s own old school and gentlemanly policies of sticking by your coaches, not asserting pressure or demanding different when it is absolutely apparent that change is necessary, is self-defeating and why we’re struggling now. But then you go back and assert that the only correct and proper way for the powers at be to handle a coaching situation now, and in the future, is exactly the same way they have done it for eons.

    Well, which is it? Can’t be both.

  16. WolfPup35 09/12/2006 at 9:31 PM #

    This just PROVES that we, Wolfpack Nation, are NOT paranoid NOR are we conspiracy theorists…..WE ARE RIGHT!!! Not only was this call WRONG (as shown by the plethora of photographic evidence) but, correct me if I’m wrong, this was the same line judge that blew (pun intended) the call in ’04 at carolina. While there may not be a vast conspiracy to screw the ‘Pack, this ONE official (reprimanded FIVE TIMES PREVIOUS according to reports) seems to always find a way to screw us at the worst possible moments.

  17. Wolfpack4ever 09/12/2006 at 9:32 PM #

    LOL
    redfred, Maybe we do take up a lot of space here. But you know, as we go back and forth we may be identifying a real dilemma.

    redfred2 Says:
    “You are practically admitting that NC State’s own old school and gentlemanly policies of sticking by your coaches, not asserting pressure or demanding different when it is absolutely apparent that change is necessary, is self-defeating and why we’re struggling now. But then you go back and assert that the only correct and proper way for the powers at be to handle a coaching situation now, and in the future, is exactly the same way they have done it for eons.

    Well, which is it? Can’t be both.”

    Not for eaons, just since the advent of institutional controls. But fred, in a paradox you do have it both ways. Its not working and there is nothing to be done as long as the Chancellor doesn’t condone a firing or a vacancy opens up. Either could happen if we have many more gaffs like yesterday.
    Nobody, absolutely nobody will be fired as NCSU football Head Coach going 5 for 6 to bowls, even if they are they are in some cases, the toilet bowl.

    Your posts indicate that you are confusing my approving of the process with approving the man (in Herb’s case, but not Chuck case ’cause I think he is as good as is available to us.

    Even with all his coaching shortcomings, we were a good QB from having a very good team last year and a good team this year. IMNSHO our best shot at a “good” QB this year is Stone. When we give it up on Stone, there is no going back. What little confidence he has will be shot. Lightly recruited Daniel Evans is not the man. Apparently Burke is not ready yet. The meat of our schedule would eat a QB alive who didn’t know the offense and who is 3 months removed from HS. (Please don’t insult me by bringing up PR.)

  18. WolfPup35 09/12/2006 at 9:41 PM #

    Wolfpack4ever is absolutely right….let Stone continue to play and continue to grow. Burke won’t start until Stone is long gone, maybe not even then.
    Time will tell. As we have all seen in the past, as he plays, Stone gets better–pull him now and that’s it, he’s screwed for good from a confidence standpoint. HE IS NOT, AND NEVER WILL BE PHILIP RIVERS—-NO ONE WILL. We just have to hope for his success, and stand behind our team regardless.

  19. redfred2 09/12/2006 at 9:57 PM #

    Hey, I’ve never said a word about giving up anything on Stone, except for possibly the limited confidence that the coaching staff has shown in him through their own play calling.

    I will say that sometime in a majority of the games that there needs to be a series or two run by a potential up and comer. That is purely for the sake of experience and the future. Stone needs to be the man, but there is no guarantee that he, or any other FOOTBALL player, will be there when needed.

  20. redfred2 09/12/2006 at 10:56 PM #

    Back to the BS

    You sound as if you’re confusing my statements as coming from someone who wants to fire the whole planet. Not so. I’m saying there is plenty of wiggle room in between the hiring of someone, and the eventual fir….I started to say firing but that is not an option…and the eventual departure, totally proper term, to be pro active and aid to that university EMPLOYEE in ways that will help them achieve satisfactory results while they toe the proverbial line in the meantime.

    The problem I have is with the line itself. I’d call it Fowler’s and the ‘in crowd’s’ yellow brick road. I think don’t that their perception of where that path is supposed to lead is anywhere close to the direction that the majority Wolfpack faithful want to be heading. Theirs is more like a prim and proper little circular drive that we’ve been circuling ourselves dizzy on trying to find a ramp off for too long already.

    The good ol boys keep holding to the ideals and loyalties of the past while the rest of the college athletics world blurs straight ahead and further on out of site. This is not 1960, 1970, or whenever, times have changed. People don’t stay in the same jobs forever in anything anymore, much less coaching. It’s all about performance and constant improvement these days. Coaches have changed, kids have changed also, someone has to work harder to keep them focused and committed to the big picture more than ever before. That is the AD’s job.

    I think that if HS had been let go after 5 years he would have better appreciated the opportunity he was given. But he instead became a malcontent and firmly entrenched system that didn’t have rewards or repercussions either way. That is all that this group of NC State administrators, while continuing on down their familar path, will ever be capable of producing.

  21. Glen Sudhop54 09/13/2006 at 10:21 PM #

    Back to the photo.

    I think TA was closer to the goal line on the final play at Ohio State 3 yrs ago. By these standards, TA had a “clear” touchdown.

    The TA UNC debacle was different. Not sure, but I think his knee was down before he crossed the line at Kenan. What stunk was the ref immediately signaled TD and the points were on the scoreboard only to be taken off. I guess if that had been the very last play we would have won—surely the refs would have disappeared instantly like last Saturday.

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